Help with hamon

Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
49
I have been trying for a while now to acieve a decent hamon using 1095 and quenching in brine. Almost every knife I had either cracked or warped horribly. This time 'round I used oil, and it worked well. Even though I'm happy about the success, the hamon isn't as exciting as I'd hoped. How can I get a more active line?

Much obliged,
Brook
 
Brook,
Tell us something about your procedures and equipment used.
You will need to stay on the lower end of austenitization and soak fully. If you are guessing at the temps, and just heating and dunking, I would say that is where you need to improve things.
Stacy
 
As Stacy said, you need to have good control of temperature. Also, you said that you oil quenched but didn't say what type of oil. No oil will give you the same hamon that water or brine does but some are much better than others. It's all in the cooling rate. Let us know at what temperature that you used the quenching oil as well.

Gary
 
High carbon just means that it has more than .70% carbon. Many high alloy steels have high carbon, but will not produce a hamon. The combination that produces a hamon is high enough carbon ( .60-1.00) and low alloy.Such steels are called shallow hardening. Typically .30%Mn and little or no Cr or V is considered perfect for hamon production.
Stacy
 
Sorry to be vague. I've been using my propane forge and heating the steel just past critical temperature, and then holding it at the temp. for at least 10 minutes. After soaking at critical temp. I quenched the knife in question in vegetable oil (not wanting to lose a "quick" quench) I know the cooling rate is the magic element, but I just got frustrated that 2/3 of my blades weren't coming out of heat treat properly. I've done a bunch of knives of different types of steels and doing the appropriate methods with great results, but the beauty of active hamons still alludes me.

Thanks to Mr. Hanson as well, I think I'll try less clay. I admire his work too much to not take his advice.

Thanks,
Brook
 
Forge - holding the steel in a small forge at an exact temperature for 10 minutes without heating beyond 1425F ,eg., is difficult. Adding a PID controller to the forge and using a muffle could help.

Quenchant - the quench speed is everything in attaining a hamon. Using any oil will decrease the activity, Using vegetable oil in lieu of a fast commercial quenchant ( like Parks #50) will further decrease the results ( or virtually eliminate them).

Try to learn the quench using brine. Once you have it just about mastered....you will probably go back to fast oil.

Steel - the steel needs to be as shallow hardening as possible. Little or no alloy content. .70-1.00% carbon, and .30 or less Manganese is the perfect steel, but such a mix is hard to find. The usual suspects are 1070-1095, W-1, and W-2.
Alloy steels like 5160,52100, (and, obviously, stainless steels) will not work.

Clay - coat the entire blade with a thin wash coat, and coat the shielded areas with an 1/8" coat. Measure the blade at the spine before you coat it. Measure it again after the coating. You would be surprised how often it is a lot more than .250 wider.

Condition of the steel - any blade being quenched needs to be ready for the stress it will be under, but shallow hardening steels need it the most. Properly normalize/stress relieve the blade before the clay coating. Sand the surface smooth and remove every grind mark. Eliminate any possible stress risers, such as sharp corners or edges. Leave plenty of edge meat,about .040", and round the edge. Round off all edges a tad ( many folks grind the edge and spine to a prefect flat surface, which creates a sharp 90 degree angle with the flat sides).

The quench - If using oil,after the plunge, hold the blade still for about 2 seconds, to allow the edge to cool below the pearlite nose, and then move it back and forth in a cutting motion. After about 5-7 seconds, pull it out and check for warps. Fix immediately and return to the quench tank to cool the rest of the way ( all adjusting of shape needs to be done before the blade cools to 500F). Don't remove it from the warm oil for at least two or three minutes. Gently clean off any clay still stuck on ,and temper at 300 immediately.
Resist the temptation to give it a quick grind and dip in the FC to see the results. Cracks can be forming while you do that if the steel isn't snap tempered quickly after quench.

If doing a water quench you will have to work out your own in-out timing ( I use, IN-1-2-3-OUT-1-2-3-Back in). The immediate post quench temper still applies.
 
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