Helping Knifemakers spot trends.

Location, location, location. How many times have you heard that. I have a retail shop in a very small tourist town and it keeps me and others busy making knives. If my shop were on Rodeo Drive I would need to hire people if selling at the same price. Or raise the heck out of my prices of today. Location, location, location.

Jim you are one of the lucky one. I just called rodeo drive, They said they would call me when they had something for me. I am really looking forward to my new location. :)

Most knifemakers don't have luxury of location. Jim I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. I was thinking what shows I can do to make more money, hence location. Then I got to thinking why don't I make more knife that my customer want. If I know trends I can have what is hot. Hense right location, right knife and right customer.

I understand 600.00 for a show ain't great money. But I followed the current trend to make 4 knifes for last week show. I sold 3 of them. the other 15 that I liked. I made just to fill inventory just set there.

So Jim you are right. I had the right knife for the right time in right location.

Jim I loved the video. Thanking for sharing your wisdom with us.
 
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OK, I lied when I said I had nothing more to say on the subject. :o

from a different thread:
...pretty sells, well made and workable keeps customers coming back...

Maybe I'm just stubborn or old-fashioned, but that makes a heckuva a lot of sense to me. I apologize to Mr. Gray if I've taken his words out-of-context.

Well-made, workable, AND pretty will always sell. The cream will rise to the top, along with a few flashes in the pan... and there will always be a market for "trendy" crap. Take note of the dozens of music acts in the last few decades who went Gold quick, then fizzled out.

Hense The words "Grain of salt" :)

Fair enough! I think I understand your point of view, but custom knives to me, are much like good music. Trends come and go, but talent and quality last. Would the Beatles or Stones or Loveless drop-points or Randall Model #1's be considered "trendy" today?

NOPE! But they all still sell records/knives after all these decades, despite dozens of copy-cats and whatever trends have come and gone. None of those four examples "invented" the style that helped them prosper, but they brought their own take to it, made it their own, and kicked A$$ in the process. Will Britney Spears be remembered the same as Paul McCartney, 100 years from now? I think not. (I'll refrain from picking on any knife companies in the same vein.)

It would be real REAL easy for any of us to sharpen some pry-bars, have them coated with bed-liner material, call them "tactical" and sell a bunch of junk to kids and "mall-ninjas". In fact, there's a glut of manu's that do just that. If I wanted a piece of that market, I'd invest in a machine shop overseas.

Which is not to say there aren't some really fine, truly tactical knives on the market; I'm not picking on that genre... it just springs to mind when I think of trends. Another trend is embarassingly cheap copies of classic American slip-joints... that annoys me even more. Again, there are some AWESOME slip-joints being made and sold by custom makers on this very forum; the quality of their work commands very high prices, and they deserve every penny.

OK... set aside the guys with successful wives that let them make knives and be independent as hell. Set aside the semi or full retirees that don't need the cash. For someone making a go of it, this seems to be an important thread.

An excellent point, as well. I realize that business is business, and if you can't make a living, there's not much point in beating your head against a wall. I assure you, I'm not any of "those" guys. I'm 38, single, and broke as heck :D I'm not disparaging any particular price-point or style or potential market, but I really think there's a difference between providing a higher-than-usual quality product and following a market-shift just for the sake of it. We have flea-markets and cable channels for that, and look what they provide. If I ONLY wanted to make money, I dang sure wouldn't be getting into the knife business!

I reckon that's about enough of my 3 or 4 cents on the subject. :o

James , I just love your new avatar . It makes me go cross eyed .:D

Thanks! I think... it came about in an unexpected way from folks here pokin' fun at me (rightfully so)... I like it because it reminds me not to take myself too seriously. Personally, I need that kinda kick-in-the-pants once in a while. Like, uh, now ;)
 
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So you think Trends don't come to Idaho year after year.

Jim,

I love that video. You make it look easy.

From what I've seen, people are going for EDCs. I've sold 6 times more EDCs than anything else. ~$65-~$120 price range.
 
From what I've seen, people are going for EDCs. I've sold 6 times more EDCs than anything else. ~$65-~$120 price range.

That's a "trend" I can wrap my head around. No-BS knives for no-BS prices.

For what it's worth, a recent editorial in a major knife mag backs you up on that.
 
James - there's a couple of points about the classic knives that you're talking about. One is that they are costly if you get a nice one, period. There's a lot of work that goes into the fit and finish that only collectors are willing to pay for. Those same collectors won't be willing to pay for it if you can buy one from any knifemaker just starting out. They are paying for experience and craftsmanship, and usually a name. Think of all those Beatles covers by bands you don't remember.

Trends are always going to be useful to a maker who is trying to sell knives. You can make sub-hilt fighters and Loveless hunters all day long, but unless you're one of the few who gets a name for it, you might want to consider making some other styles of knife that people like. That's all if you want to sell knives, of course.
 
It would be real REAL easy for any of us to sharpen some pry-bars, have them coated with bed-liner material, call them "tactical" and sell a bunch of junk to kids and "mall-ninjas". In fact, there's a glut of manu's that do just that. If I wanted a piece of that market, I'd invest in a machine shop overseas.

Which is not to say there aren't some really fine, truly tactical knives on the market; I'm not picking on that genre... it just springs to mind when I think of trends.

Once again, nicely said.

And I wasn't going to get into that, but... since you brought it up...:D:D

I am old enough to remember (52 - first knife 48 years ago, one a birthday and at Christmas for years!) when no one in their right mind would carry some of the knives that folks buy here. No one. Not a soul.

I can imagine someone pulling out one of the bar stock knives so popular here when we were hunting back in the 70s. The ribbing would have made him throw it in the creek. I didn't have any hunting partners that carried knives with blades over 6" unless it was a Buck. We took apart deer with a sharp knife and a tree saw. The fastest skinner I ever saw (not me!) used a Case Sod Buster, Jr. It had a carbon blade that he sharpened on sand paper that gave it enough tooth to slice right into bloody meat.

And NO ONE would have carried a knife with a painted blade. It screamed crappy workmanship hidden by paint. Those were characteristics of crappy knives from third world countries. They usually came with the black vinyl sheaths with contrasting white stitching.

I can imagine selling another explanation around the camp fire, too. "No man, it's a tactical grade material used on SWAT gear, the space shuttle, and CIA equipment. They call it Kydex." The 1970s reply: "I dunno. Seriously. It just looks like f'in plastic to me. And it has holes all over the outside where it's just riveted together - it isn't even sewn! And when you got it by the fire, the end did melt a little.. really.. I think it's just plastic! " We never saw tactical/ballistic nylon, plastic, or any other kind of sheath on a good knife except oiled leather.

Another example: "Honest, it's called a paracord weave. That actually replaces the handle with a more sure grip and gives you 28 feet of paracord as well that you can use in a survival situation. And if it is a seven strand paracord, you will have a couple of hundred feet of string you can unravel so you can go fishing." Reply: "So you are in a desperate survival situation and you take the string off the handle to so you can use it one something else? What in the hell do you hang onto if you take the string off the knife? The blade blank? Why didn't you get a knife with real handles? How screwed up would you have to be to go fishing with your knife handle? Is there a fishing hook in there somewhere?"

Imagine the discourse on plastic handles in the 70s. "It's called G10. It is a glass embedded product made under high pressure to give better grip on the knife under all conditions, but to be impervious to wear." Reply: "Looks like fiberglass to me".

Try explaining in the 50s through the 80s to someone why their knife was screwed together with plain screws instead of peened rod or pins in nicely fitted scales. Then think about this; in the early days of screwed together pieces, they even used slotted screws!

And of course, the finale would be trying to explain the tactical/survival advantages of having certain knives. Knives worn around the neck with tiny blades; knives with large serrations; knives with saw teeth; knives with sharpened swedges; knives with blackout coatings on them; knives with micarta handles that are completely impervious to wear but are put on quick rusting carbon steel blades and sold as all weather survival knives; knives with any kind of blade over 6 inches; and worse, any kind of knife that couldn't be used for every day work, skinning a deer or cleaning a fish.

But look at what we have as a norm in the market now. All those things mentioned above were laughable trends not that long ago (to me!). Now they are not only the norm, but they are the expectation.

I agree with Sr. Terrio 100%. Knives that are well made, well designed and sell for a good price will NEVER go out of style or practical use.

But will a knifemaker in general survive long enough to make just "their" knives? Not unless he makes sales. And making sales means that you have to either cater to some extent to a trend, or start your own. As long as you just stay the course, you will only make your bills.

As a small business man, I make decisions I don't want to so that I can stay in business. I would rather be making cabinets, but since they aren't selling right now, my company is doing roof repairs. Roof repairs... and the sad thing is they actually pay better than when I am building cabinets.

But in the end, it's all about survival in business. You can't eat pride or pay your water bill with it. Sometimes you just have to get over yourself and call your work that you are less fond of "my experimental stage".


Robert
 
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i can't pick up any trends from what i've sold last few shows...last show i sold an artsy (but plain) curved 18" dagger on a stand, a 16" tanto, both of those with decent hand finish, and 2 beefy o1 bush knives.

Last year it was a full size katana influenced sword, a chisel edge tactical, and a banite bush knife... I guess i usually sell a bush knife but i sure don't make money on them.
 
One word: gimmicks. Take 'em or leave 'em. What else can I say?

Tacticals are far from a fad. Tacticals were be napped out flint long long before the words trend, fad, classic or tactical were ever used.

Some of the newer tacticals are the Bowie and Arkansas Tooth Pick. Which lead to other even newer tactical the Kabar, Randalls and Loveless Chute knives.
 
i can't pick up any trends from what i've sold last few shows...last show i sold an artsy (but plain) curved 18" dagger on a stand, a 16" tanto, both of those with decent hand finish, and 2 beefy o1 bush knives.

Last year it was a full size katana influenced sword, a chisel edge tactical, and a banite bush knife... I guess i usually sell a bush knife but i sure don't make money on them.

Looks like another vote for tactical.
 
Tacticals are far from a fad.

I never said they were. See my post above, I'm not picking on tactical knives per se, it's just that they're one style that seems to be a big "bandwagon" for some people.

I don't think I'm making myself clear so I'll just hush now :o :p
 
James I personally am not one myself to follow trends either. I couldn't tell you who is in top 40. I drive a jeep wrangler talk about classic design and I love windows pro. Plus I still have a VHS. And I Dont like the new Metallic cd. LOL

What trends are is the direction of things, they are quite different than fads. everything at one time or another was a trend. I have yet to sell a "gimmick" knife.

I sell to knife lovers that don't have clue who Bob Loveless or what a classic design is. They know what the trends are. Every knife dealer at the show has what is "hot" in their cases. I have to know and make knives that are "Hot".

I never make a knife I don't want to make. There IMHO is no such thing. when I start sanding a micarta handle and the design comes out. I smile the same as if it was finest mammoth scale. I just love knives period. But first and foremost I really love seeing someone fall in love with a knife I made. I see that now when people buy one of my knives.

James we are really on the same page. I just have to adapt to survive so I can continue to make knives for a living. I been thrown in sea of knifemakers
with my little spot of land to sell from. Now my life as I know it depends on it me adapting. :o:o
 
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James I personally am not one myself to follow trends either. I couldn't tell you who is in top 40. I drive a jeep wrangler talk about classic design and I love windows pro. Plus I still have a VHS. And I Dont like the new Metallic cd. LOL

What trends are is the direction of things, they are quite different than fads. everything at one time or another was a trend. I have yet to sell a "gimmick" knife.

I sell to knife lovers that don't have clue who Bob Loveless or what a classic design is. They know what the trends are. Every knife dealer at the show has what is "hot" in their cases. I have to know and make knives that are "Hot".

I never make a knife I don't want to make. There IMHO is no such thing. when I start sanding a micarta handle and the design comes out. I smile the same as if it was finest mammoth scale. I just love knives period. But first and foremost I really love seeing someone fall in love with a knife I made. I see that now when people buy one of my knives.

James we are really on the same page. I just have to adapt to survive so I can continue to make knives for a living. I been thrown in sea of knifemakers
with my little spot of land to sell from. Now my life as I know it depends on it me adapting. :o:o

Well put.
 
when I start sanding a micarta handle and the design comes out. I smile the same as if it was finest mammoth scale. I just love knives period.

Now that's an idea I can get my arms around. I've really no place saying anything here since I do not sell knives to make a living - the most I can hope for is putting a little more grease in the monthly budget. And I don't make enough knives to worry about trends - I think I make fewer knives in a year than you do for a show! :) I do know I got seriously burnt out not too long ago from making the "same ole thing" for orders. When I started making again I determined that once I got my orders caught up I wouldn't take any more orders, would make only what interested me. That's a luxury makers like you guys who do this for a living do not have. My hat is off to you.

But this thread has gotten me thinking. There are in fact undeniable trends in the knife market that do not offend me. I think it'll be in my own interest to see how I can adapt my thinking/making to align with current knife buyer's interests. That doesn't mean I have to make the same knife over and over. Added to this idea, I really don't have the imagination to make one-offs all the time. I have a couple of established pattens and am working on a couple more; I think it's time to start thinking about the idea of buyer's trends and develop patterns that can fit both our interests. Good thread.

So. My most popular pattern has been an idealized tanto with bolsters and a very 3D handle. I've made it with all kinds of handle materials, from delrin to ivory, and they all sell. Higher-end handles seem to sell better than synthetics on this knife. The price range is $270-$450 though with my stock of ivory depleted I don't think I'll be able to sell those for 450 anymore - that would barely cover the cost of the handle. ;)

The other popular pattern is a garish, fruity-looking thing that you would all scoff at - but I've sold so many of them that I'm sick of making em. The price range for Cratchetts is $90-$130 for the desk size, and $220-$350 for the 140% size. Price depends on blade finish and handle material.

If anyone is interested in seeing those knives they're both shown in my little vanity website.

Thanks for the good thought-provoking thread. I'm looking forward to my first knife show. You got me wondering if I'm going to sell anything! :D 'Cause I haven't followed any trends but my own desire. ;)
 
I sold four tactics fighters. I tried something today. I had some low price hunters 50.00.
I raised all my price after lunch to check something someone had suggested by 100.00. The hunter I raised to 100.00. It was first time all week the hunter were actually picked up. I think if you price at junk prices the customers think the same thing, Junk.

I am making 4 powder coated 1095 tacticals next weekend with custom micarta handles.
 
I think trendspotting based on individual sales is going to be nearly impossible to be useful. Trends are just that... market fluctuations that expand to the average person/company in that market. There are too many variables to look for a market trend based on the sales of a few small makers. For example, the original poster mentioned some damascus pieces that he sold... well, if he has ONLY damascus or mostly damascus pieces on his table, guess what? If he sells ANYTHING it'll most likely be damascus. So does that mean that there is a trend toward damascus in the market? Not at all. If I have one fixed blades and a dozen folders on my table, and people buy the folders, likewise, that doesn't mean there is a trend toward folders.

I think you almost HAVE to look at what the big manufacturers are doing to spot trends. Even so, do most knifemakers NEED to be aware of trends? I don't know.
 
Trends are very important. Some of us being full time makers depend on trends.Let not confuse trends with fads. I have found tacticals are very desirable. I have 16 knives on my table 80 percent are of classical design and materials. 20 percent are of more exotic handle, design and blades. So I should sell 80/20. They consistently buy the 20 percent. My most popular knife is tactical knife with Damascus blade with custom micarta handles, I have sold 3 of in the last three week and I have sold one traditional loveless chute fighter 440c and Horn handle. I made that same knife in damascus a few weeks ago. It lasted 3 hours and sold for 150.00 more that it tradition counterpart. I usually sell what I made that last week.
Back to what the "big" manufacturer are doing. I don't think any are pushing a Damascus tactical. But it is my best seller. So in my case as a full time maker. I have no luxury in doing what the "big" manufacturer are making. As a small business man I have to do what my customers want.
That said. Trends are what feeds my family, and pays my bills
 
Jim, what I'm saying is that your experience is a trend for YOUR product, but other makers could try damascus tacticals with Micarta handles and completely flop. There are too many variables involved to call that a trend for anybody but you, if that makes more sense. I think it IS essential for individual makers to know what THEY sell well. BUt that information may not be applicable to other makers.
 
Jim, what I'm saying is that your experience is a trend for YOUR product, but other makers could try damascus tacticals with Micarta handles and completely flop. There are too many variables involved to call that a trend for anybody but you, if that makes more sense. I think it IS essential for individual makers to know what THEY sell well. BUt that information may not be applicable to other makers.

Thank you. Well said.
 
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