Helping Younger Scouts

[Quiet]

I think you may be going about it the wrong way. Especially if you have pull with the Boy Scouts organization.

It sounds as though the solution might be to have BSA re-spec and bid their knife.

I have to assume there is licensing somewhere in the official "Boy Scout Knife." Either someone lost their panties at the negotiating table last time the dice were thrown or someone just didn't give a damn and selected high bidder(s).

If so, and if the knives are as bad as you say, they need to re-negotiate the knife contract(s) ASAP and get a good company to build a quality knife for the kids. Bring in the consultants, do focus groups, hire Oprah...whatever they need to do.

Maybe there is something I'm not aware of that won't allow that.

I wasn't in scouts long; I had an adventurous dad. But I did have the knife. I think overall a Boy Scout knife is a good first knife for a kid. If it's a bad knife, make a good one.

I can sincerely say that a single Scout with a single troop isn't going to have anywhere near the sort of national level pull to accomplish anything like that, sorry man. My father is a senior district council leader for one of the largest regional groups in the country and couldn't get that to happen.

 

[EChoil]

I can sincerely say that a single Scout with a single troop isn't going to have anywhere near the sort of national level pull to accomplish anything like that, sorry man. My father is a senior district council leader for one of the largest regional groups in the country and couldn't get that to happen.

Maybe he can get the ball rolling. It sounds like the Scouts need a good knife.

 

[kornphlake]

So basically, I'm asking for a durable knife that has a decent price and doesn't look like it would be wielded by a serial killer or a Navy SEAL to recommend to these kids for general Scouting-purposes. I'm also asking if and how I can deter eighty eleven-year-olds from cheap knock-off knives that "look cool."

The reason 11 year old scouts buy cheap knives at rip off prices at a scout camp trading post is because they can; for most kids summer camp is the first time they've ever had more than a couple dollars spending money and the opportunity to spend it without their parents supervision. Since the trading post doesn't sell firearms or playboy magazines, boys buy the next best thing: knives. If the trading post had some high value knives in stock like a Mora or Opinel, boys would buy them just as quickly as they buy cheap knives, if they sold Kershaw Cryos and Skylines they'd sell even better, but the trading post doesn't sell those knives, they sell low quality imports and boys buy them because that's what they can buy while their mommies aren't watching. If you want to deter boys from buying low quality knives either don't let them buy knives at all, or give them an opportunity to buy a high value knife in a deal where their parents influence doesn't matter. Maybe try getting a group order together and have the troop number etched on the blade or handle of one of the knives already mentioned. Parents might be more willing to buy their sons a knife if they felt obligated in some way, perhaps the leaders could convince the parents that the knife offered in a group buy is the only knife the troop approves for use on scout outings and it's required as part of the Boy Scout uniform.

Keep in mind the Scouting program is intended to instill duty to God and country, service toward others, physical fitness, mental acuity and the ability to make ethical decisions. There is a lot more to the program than knives and pooping in the woods.

 

[asdf12345]

Personally I think 11 and 12 is too early to get started with a serious knife. God knows that kids consume lots of popular culture in the form of video games and television that tell you a knife = power over others by means of force, a means by which to make up for other perceived deficiencies, etc. And at that age it's very hard to explain to them anything, let alone the proper attitude to have around knives and other weapons. We may think knife = tool but to little kids, knife = weapon = power.

 

[neilioli]

The reason 11 year old scouts buy cheap knives at rip off prices at a scout camp trading post is because they can; for most kids summer camp is the first time they've ever had more than a couple dollars spending money and the opportunity to spend it without their parents supervision. Since the trading post doesn't sell firearms or playboy magazines, boys buy the next best thing: knives. If the trading post had some high value knives in stock like a Mora or Opinel, boys would buy them just as quickly as they buy cheap knives, if they sold Kershaw Cryos and Skylines they'd sell even better, but the trading post doesn't sell those knives, they sell low quality imports and boys buy them because that's what they can buy while their mommies aren't watching. If you want to deter boys from buying low quality knives either don't let them buy knives at all, or give them an opportunity to buy a high value knife in a deal where their parents influence doesn't matter. Maybe try getting a group order together and have the troop number etched on the blade or handle of one of the knives already mentioned. Parents might be more willing to buy their sons a knife if they felt obligated in some way, perhaps the leaders could convince the parents that the knife offered in a group buy is the only knife the troop approves for use on scout outings and it's required as part of the Boy Scout uniform.

Keep in mind the Scouting program is intended to instill duty to God and country, service toward others, physical fitness, mental acuity and the ability to make ethical decisions. There is a lot more to the program than knives and pooping in the woods.

I'm fully aware of that. I'm preparing to become a Green Beret, I love doing service projects (I have my Eagle project coming soon) I'm in excellent physical shape because of Scouts. The Lifesaving merit badge is the most physically demanding, swimming a quarter mile just to qualify and having to do four or five towel laps every day - a breeze for me because I take good care of my body. I get a lot out of Scouts, it's just that my favorite part is the outdoor part.

Your answer makes a lot of sense. I'm going to try and recommend Opinel #8 knives and Victorinox "Recruit" knives to the younger Scouts so they get cheap, effective knives that won't scare their parents.

Personally I think 11 and 12 is too early to get started with a serious knife. God knows that kids consume lots of popular culture in the form of video games and television that tell you a knife = power over others by means of force, a means by which to make up for other perceived deficiencies, etc. And at that age it's very hard to explain to them anything, let alone the proper attitude to have around knives and other weapons. We may think knife = tool but to little kids, knife = weapon = power.

Agreed. A lot of these kids talk about "kicking ass" when they get knives and I feel like facepalming.

 

[Kershaws]

I'm fully aware of that. I'm preparing to become a Green Beret,

The proper name is "Special Forces" there is only one 'Special Forces' in the US Armed Forces, and they wear green berets.
What draws you into Special Forces out of all other options if you don't mind me asking, what do you plan to do there?

 

[neilioli]

The proper name is "Special Forces" there is only one 'Special Forces' in the US Armed Forces, and they wear green berets.
What draws you into Special Forces out of all other options if you don't mind me asking, what do you plan to do there?

My ultimate dream is to be in 1stSFOD-D, but I don't want to get ahead of myself and I don't even know if 1stSFOD-D even exists, and the selection process I've been hearing about has a washout rate of 97%. Right now I'm shooting for SF Combat Diver, because I love diving and I want to be pushed to my limit. If I achieve this I will not stop attending 1stSFOD-D selection until I achieve what I came there to do.

I'm drawn to SF because I have always been told that I'm weak and ergo, I want to do something really difficult. I've considered trying out for other Special Operations groups but decided against it for a number of reasons.

Firstoff, I like the diplomatic portion of SF. I primarily want to be a fighter, but I'd like to do other stuff besides killing people alongside. I like the idea of having a substantial part of my service not involving killing people. I'm also very interested in unconventional warfare.

Secondly, 18X - an enlistment option that puts you through OSUT, jump school and then through SOPC, SFAC, and then into the Q-course.

I plan on going to college beforehand, so I'd like to get into SF as fast as possible afterwards.

 

[Kershaws]

My ultimate dream is to be in 1stSFOD-D, but I don't want to get ahead of myself and I don't even know if 1stSFOD-D even exists, and the selection process I've been hearing about has a washout rate of 97%. Right now I'm shooting for SF Combat Diver, because I love diving and I want to be pushed to my limit. If I achieve this I will not stop attending 1stSFOD-D selection until I achieve what I came there to do.

I'm drawn to SF because I have always been told that I'm weak and ergo, I want to do something really difficult. I've considered trying out for other Special Operations groups but decided against it for a number of reasons.

Firstoff, I like the diplomatic portion of SF. I primarily want to be a fighter, but I'd like to do other stuff besides killing people alongside. I like the idea of having a substantial part of my service not involving killing people. I'm also very interested in unconventional warfare.

Secondly, 18X - an enlistment option that puts you through OSUT, jump school and then through SOPC, SFAC, and then into the Q-course.

I plan on going to college beforehand, so I'd like to get into SF as fast as possible afterwards.

Well if people are correct about you being 15, you won't have to worry about SF in almost a decade from now. Don't get ahead of yourself.
First focus on exactly what branch you want to join, Navy seems like a good option for you in my opinion, and after you've had a couple of years experience in the military, THEN you can think about joining SF (If you go Army)
You have to be 20 years old to 'try out' for SF but is that really the best idea? Wait until you are more mature...Join military...get some experience in...once you got your shit together you can think about SF
It's good that you have goals, but make sure you take things step by step
I gotta admit you are an annoying twat, but i'm glad you are not one of those Call of Duty absorbed kids that wan't to join because they want to quick-scope ragheads in real-life

 

[neilioli]

Well if people are correct about you being 15, you won't have to worry about SF in almost a decade from now. Don't get ahead of yourself.
First focus on exactly what branch you want to join, Navy seems like a good option for you in my opinion, and after you've had a couple of years experience in the military, THEN you can think about joining SF (If you go Army)
You have to be 20 years old to 'try out' for SF but is that really the best idea? Wait until you are more mature...Join military...get some experience in...once you got your shit together you can think about SF
It's good that you have goals, but make sure you take things step by step

My other option is diving for the Coast Guard as more of a work diver and less of a combat diver.

But I'd prefer being an SF Combat Diver.

 

[LEGION 12]

Sigh There's a diplomatic SF Group ? But hey all kidding a side good luck with that . You just should get a fixed blade unless you can afford a Ffk or a Jarbenza.

 

[Quiet]

My ultimate dream is to be in 1stSFOD-D, but I don't want to get ahead of myself and I don't even know if 1stSFOD-D even exists, and the selection process I've been hearing about has a washout rate of 97%. Right now I'm shooting for SF Combat Diver, because I love diving and I want to be pushed to my limit. If I achieve this I will not stop attending 1stSFOD-D selection until I achieve what I came there to do.

I'm drawn to SF because I have always been told that I'm weak and ergo, I want to do something really difficult. I've considered trying out for other Special Operations groups but decided against it for a number of reasons.

Firstoff, I like the diplomatic portion of SF. I primarily want to be a fighter, but I'd like to do other stuff besides killing people alongside. I like the idea of having a substantial part of my service not involving killing people. I'm also very interested in unconventional warfare.

Secondly, 18X - an enlistment option that puts you through OSUT, jump school and then through SOPC, SFAC, and then into the Q-course.

I plan on going to college beforehand, so I'd like to get into SF as fast as possible afterwards.

Ok dude, the ish is getting deep in here. Tell me something, you being 15 and such, you should be developing critical thinking skills by now, so maybe you can help me out with something.

Can you explain how children talking about "kicking ass" makes you facepalm, and yet not an hour later, you say the following with what I assume is absolute candor:

I primarily want to be a fighter, but I'd like to do other stuff besides killing people alongside.

So wait. You think kids talking about kicking ass is dumb, but then you state (without any smilies to denote what a friggin' joke it is) that you "want to be a fighter" who does other stuff besides "killing people". ERROR ERROR LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE ERROR WILL ROBINSON. Why shouldn't we be facepalming right now about you? Dude, seriously, please stop. You aren't impressing anyone and frankly, the tone of your posts make it clear that you're trying to project yourself as something you aren't. That isn't necessary.

Understand that I'm not trying to hate on you; just think that you should probably keep in mind that you're speaking to a great many people who are much older than you. You're a kid who's talking about "I'm going special forces, so I can fight and kill people!" Not impressive, especially not for someone who's trying to make Eagle.

 

[Kershaws]

neilioli... post a thread on W&C...i'm sure alot of us want to...chat, with you.

 

[22-rimfire]

I personally would stay the hell away from the special forces or the Rangers if it includes jumping from planes and so forth. You really beat up your body A LOT. Then when you turn 50, all of a sudden you have all kinds of knee replacements, hip replacements, and other problems... pain, pain, and more pain..... every day, non stop.

Nothing wrong with a military career. Go to college. You might even qualify for a scholarship from the military. It is a sweet deal. My nephew sailed through college (engineering) and had more disposable money than I do and I work. Went to Officers Training school and on to other things. Better yet, try to get into one of the military colleges.

Knives.... get your Dad or if you have some money, pick up 4-5 knives that you like and take them to camp and sell them to your fellow scouts. Who knows? It might be a new calling for you. You really need to think FIXED BLADE in the 4" area.... BK-16, BK-17, BK-15, ESEE-3, ESEE-4, maybe a Condor or two..... these are practical knives. Of course, eventually you will get a BK-9. Everyone who gets hooked on Beckers (BK's) eventually will, including me.

 

[neilioli]

neilioli... post a thread on W&C...i'm sure alot of us want to...chat, with you.

Mmm'kaaay...

On another note, I've been wondering about the patches on the Scout uniform. For the mostpart I love the Scout uniform, but it takes a lot of effort to get the patches on and "badge magic" doesn't really hold up.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just put velcro everywhere a patch is supposed to go and then back all the patches with velcro? The army does this so I assume it's a safe bet.

I personally would stay the hell away from the special forces or the Rangers if it includes jumping from planes and so forth. You really beat up your body A LOT. Then when you turn 50, all of a sudden you have all kinds of knee replacements, hip replacements, and other problems... pain, pain, and more pain..... every day, non stop.

Knives.... get your Dad or if you have some money, pick up 4-5 knives that you like and take them to camp and sell them to your fellow scouts. Who knows? It might be a new calling for you. You really need to think FIXED BLADE in the 4" area.... BK-16, BK-17, BK-15, ESEE-3, ESEE-4, maybe a Condor or two..... these are practical knives. Of course, eventually you will get a BK-9. Everyone who gets hooked on Beckers (BK's) eventually will, including me.

Regarding airplane jumps - I've never really had a fear of heights. I've never jumped out of a plane so that could all change, but for the mostpart heights don't phase me. I do 3-meter springboard diving so I've gotten really used to heights.

I've heard lots of stories of parachutes failing to deploy and that really scares me, something I'll have to consider beforehand.

Beating my body up is another thing I'll have to consider because I try and keep my body in peak condition, and I want a good body when I'm fifty, too. The SF thing is not 100%, there are a ton of factors I'll have to consider beforehand. I have some family and friends in the military so I might interrogate them about stuff like that. If I don't do SF I'll either go Coast Guard or try something like technical or commercial diving.

The problem with fixed blades is that Scouts doesn't allow them for the mostpart. Some troops allow them but that all changes when you bring it to camp, because the troop has almost no authority over that kind of stuff when at camps (talking residential camps). The same is with reselling knives. My troop doesn't allow the reselling of knives from Scout to Scout, because a lot of kids will get ripped off by older Scouts, for example some older Scouts sell knock-off knives to Tenderfoot Scouts for over fifty bucks. They might make an exception if I pitch them my case, though - so thanks for the good idea, I'll really consider it. I might not be able to sell them myself but maybe the Scoutmaster or some JASMs can get in on it with me.

 

[Quiet]

Mmm'kaaay...

On another note, I've been wondering about the patches on the Scout uniform. For the mostpart I love the Scout uniform, but it takes a lot of effort to get the patches on and "badge magic" doesn't really hold up.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just put velcro everywhere a patch is supposed to go and then back all the patches with velcro? The army does this so I assume it's a safe bet.



Regarding airplane jumps - I've never really had a fear of heights. I've never jumped out of a plane so that could all change, but for the mostpart heights don't phase me. I do 3-meter springboard diving so I've gotten really used to heights.

I've heard lots of stories of parachutes failing to deploy and that really scares me, something I'll have to consider beforehand.

Beating my body up is another thing I'll have to consider because I try and keep my body in peak condition, and I want a good body when I'm fifty, too.

If you are fifteen, and not sewing your own merit badges on your sash, there's seriously something wrong.

 

[LEGION 12]

Velcro that's how operators put on there bling.

 

[Rasco]

Mora. All day.
Best way to sell these kids on the idea of picking the "boring-looking knife" = Show them one in action Vs one of those gift shop knives.
Next outing, tell them all to bring their knives and do some activities that put them to the test. Point out the importance of a quality knife as you go.

 

[22-rimfire]

Regarding airplane jumps - I've never really had a fear of heights. I've never jumped out of a plane so that could all change, but for the mostpart heights don't phase me. I do 3-meter springboard diving so I've gotten really used to heights.

I've heard lots of stories of parachutes failing to deploy and that really scares me, something I'll have to consider beforehand.

Beating my body up is another thing I'll have to consider because I try and keep my body in peak condition, and I want a good body when I'm fifty, too. The SF thing is not 100%, there are a ton of factors I'll have to consider beforehand. I have some family and friends in the military so I might interrogate them about stuff like that. If I don't do SF I'll either go Coast Guard or try something like technical or commercial diving.

The problem with fixed blades is that Scouts doesn't allow them for the mostpart. Some troops allow them but that all changes when you bring it to camp, because the troop has almost no authority over that kind of stuff when at camps (talking residential camps). The same is with reselling knives. My troop doesn't allow the reselling of knives from Scout to Scout, because a lot of kids will get ripped off by older Scouts, for example some older Scouts sell knock-off knives to Tenderfoot Scouts for over fifty bucks. They might make an exception if I pitch them my case, though - so thanks for the good idea, I'll really consider it. I might not be able to sell them myself but maybe the Scoutmaster or some JASMs can get in on it with me.

They just get ripped off buying scout approved knives.

It is not the fear of heights or parachutes not opening.... it is the jarring impacts to the ground that your body adsorbs. Everything is great until you get older and then you really feel it. It is like hearing damage, it compounds over time.

 

[asdf12345]

My vote goes to this one right here

In all seriousness, I don't think it's a great idea. The fact that they are enthusiastic about the small stuff now is already a good sign. Once these kids are the proper age to understand knives and know carry/ownership laws, then they will naturally be more inclined to go for quality items.

What I would be concerned about is finding the one kid who gets nervous around knives and who didn't purchase one, or maybe he bought one and left it in his pack all summer. Talk to him and help him with any anxiety he might have. My friend's little brother was this way, until he saw my friend make a small fire using only a knife and a firestarter.

 

[22-rimfire]

Scouts and swiss army knives go hand in hand. I like the Mora scout model. Of course, it probably isn't approved. The Companion is another good Mora. Fixed blades, I know.

Kids have to be kids and advance at their own pace based on their interests (including knives). You can't be a parent, but you certainly can be somebody they look up to. My grand kid thinks all knives are for killing. That is the kinds of things schools preach indirectly through their restrictions.

Do you do archery and rifle shooting at your camps?