Here's where everybody's been.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rusty:
Mmmm. That does sound more like my usual self.</font>
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Heheheh... I once was directed to a surgeon who proclaimed he would do his very best, but that I must realize that things were really in the hands lf the Lord. I'd known that for more years than he had been in practice, and opted for a guy who had more faith in his own skills, but was willing to accept higher help, as available.
 
Hey Rusty,
Just be sure to post your results of testing "Audrey" online before the cops come and get you. I have a 12" AK and I am curious to the results (great little kuks). My neighbors have this cat and
mad.gif
... well that is a different story. Just be sure to post those results! Uncle could always use some publicity
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!!!

Dave

Ps. Get well soon!
 
hello all,

seemed like a good thread to jump in on. I've been away for a couple months,finished,marketed and sold the house I've been building for two years and bought another project and just finished moving into it! the really good news is there's acres of brush to clear! my 25" kobra and 18"dui-chirra have already gotten serious workouts! maybe time to think about another...
 
Sorry to weigh in on the "wrong" side, but I've had some bad experiences with alprazolam, too. It really seems to be unusually addictive, and it's so short-acting that its withdrawal syndrome hits like a Mack truck. The new doc may have been burned by it before.

That said, I don't think I've ever flat-out turned down a patient because they were on a drug I didn't like. I also don't think it's acceptable practice to stop a treatment without an idea of what should be done in its place . . . I don't know the whole situation but I would think he could've sat down and tried to work out an alternate treatment plan, if nothing else. Had he accepted you as his patient, Rusty? If he had, and he didn't refer you to another doc, then that's a big problem.

It really is your old doc's responsibility to help you arrange appropriate followup after his retirement . . . I'd have a talk with him and see if he could suggest someone else.

I have used alprazolam to treat people with panic disorder so long as the attacks aren't too frequent and I don't think they're high-risk for addiction. If the attacks are more frequent I use other forms of medicine to prevent them.

There are some other options, if it comes down to it . . . for one thing, SSRI's (that's a class of medicines that nowadays are used to treat d**n near everything) are helpful longterm for jacking up the anxiety threshold, there are also some psychotherapies that DO NOT involve sitting on a couch and explicating your sexual attraction to your mother's cat that help some people.

I don't know what your dose was, etc., but if you start getting shakes, sweats, fevers you can't explain, or your heart rate starts going up for no good reason get to an ER, like FAST. Alprazolam withdrawal is bad business.

Hope this helps some. Good luck finding a new doc.
 
DocPat:

No problem with dissenting opinions/ experiences. Just bring a critical mind in functioning shape and pull up a chair.

No question alprazolam has it's drawbacks and dangers. Granted. But it can be a very useful medication. As with the SSRI's there's a whole class of benzodiazepines. And when combined appropriately with one of the SSRI's - just awesome results from what I've heard from several doctors in the area - people actually getting a life!

My doctor ( GP ) referred me at the outset ( when I changed doctors ) to a psychiatrist for a doseage evaluation on the SSRI and Xanax. I was on one .5 at bedtime, and took one .5 *when needed* in the evening. Incidentally, the hospital cut me off w/o notice on them. No withdrawal symptoms, unless I think of ethical matters.

What I object to is the attitude that "it'll do a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde number on you so we aren't going to give it to you". That's flat out condescending, and insulting too, as well as unethical.

You understand that if it were just me, I'd let it go, but this is for a noble cause/for a Nobel cause/for a dynamite cause? - for the downtrodden, for those yearning for justice, truth, and the american way...
 
I think you're right about that Rusty. If he had accepted you as a patient, and you had been on benzodiazepines chronically and he didn't come up with a plan to transition you off them or into someone else's care, that's a problem.

Clonazepam and lorazepam are longer-acting and generally held to be less addictive, though people seem to be handing clonazepam out like candy. My addicts tell me its street value is about half a capsule of heroin (my way of keeping my ear to the ground to check up on the use patterns in the city).

The psychiatry appointment might not be a bad idea . . . at least you could have someone specifically working on the problem with you, and it will give the primary the opportunity to wash his hands of it (unfortunately, that's often NOT a hard sell). Trouble is, psychiatry is a profession liberally populated with idiots (Carroll's Second Law of Psychiatry), so beware. If you've found a good shrink, he/she will probably have 3-4 treatment strategies in the pocket to talk with you about; if you've found a less-thoughtful one they'll probably ask if your current dose is enough and send you home. The latter may be mroe convenient, but most people are better off with the former.

If you were off the alprazolam in the hospital then, time-wise, you're probably out of the woods as far as withdrawal is concerned. (Which is a load off my mind, if nobody else's. You had me a little worried there, friend.)
 
Rusty!!!

Read Doc's last post at least two more times, and take it to heart - Al's brother has just now (after two years of Army shrinks) found a man with integrity. His reading was that the Army doc had big bro on near toxic levels of the newest touchy feely items, and their counteractants, to the extent that another few months would have resulted in serious internal damage and possibly a near-permanent state of vegetation. He wrote a red-hot report against this man (Chief of Psych., Ireland Hosp., Ft. Knox) to the association. This just doesn't happen unless the man believes and can prove there has been a monumental screw-up. Carroll's laws really apply in this case (ask Uncle
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)
 
In summation:

Benzodiazepines and SSRI's can be wonderfully effective and literally lifesaving when appropriately prescribed.

Benzodiazepines and SSRI's can be ghastly misused and cause very real problems in a hell of a hurry if not watched carefully.

I guess it all boils down to can you trust your doctor to monitor closely and follow through for you. I'd be comfortable trusting DocPat in such a situation. Good clear communication skills. If you can't, find an honest doc immediately. Good Luck.

 
Doc Pat had good points and I am glad he spoke up when he did as I was about to drop( 36 hours work and on call on top of that ...) Good luck, Rusty and I hope this medication issue gets resolved to your satisfaction.

Harry
 
:
This is an area I can get quite hot about!!!!
It's been proven many, many times that people with chronic pain don't become addicted to drugs that will send people without chronic pain over the edge.
I am on 40 mgs of Oxycontin 3 x a day along with 10 mgs of Baclofen at the same dosage And with a jar full of Percosets for breakthrough pain.
And I have been on this combination for going on 3 years now along with cortizone injections when things get really ugly.
I am really happy to have a very up to date and understanding pain management doc.
But there are those that call in every month before their script due date wanting more meds.
I enjoy having a clear head to much to abuse the painkillers I have. And that's also why I limit my alcohol intake as well.
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And the drugs I am on don't always clear all the pain, but it seems that a few aches and pains are generally normal for all of us and nothing that can't be tolerated, some people just want to be vegetables and not hurt at all, nor think....
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And talking about some really bad drugs I was sure glad that Barb broughyt my Prednisone along. The Friday before we were to go to Finn's I had a pretty major flare and done a Pred Push starting with 50 mgs. I am now back down to 25 and after tomorrow will be down to 20 and continueing to taper down until off of it yet again.
I think it's time to speak to my Rheumy about an NSAID to help prevent these flares.
I have a Love/Hate relationship with the pred. It does save my butt, but I often wonder at what cost.
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But knowing nothing about what my little Bro is taking I can't have an opinion about his problem. I just really have a problem with doc's that automatically think all the heavy drugs are bad.



------------------
Yvsa.

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
¥vsa, it's always a case by case situation. One needs to know the past history of what was tried and worked or didn't work and what is currently available as well as the latest info so that one gets the best possible solution for the situation. Also, once a good solution is found, it needs to be monitored regularly to ensure nothing bad happens...or if improvement occurs, the medications could be tapered down to the absolute minimum needed to get acceptable results without little or no side effects.

Harry
 
Yvsa- Funny you brought up the pain meds. Right now, as a matter of fact, I'm working on a chronic pain service. Your observation about the people who abuse their prescribed meds is right on. Here's an utterly typical case: a woman who came in with low back pain, riding in a wheelchair with family hovering about, literally falling asleep during my interview from the whopping doses of Oxy and diazepam (Valium) she was on, and telling me her pain was 10/10. And her situation is pretty typical of the people we treat there. She would also walk about 3 times more slowly and hunch over thirty more degrees if she knew somebody was watching than if they weren't.

After we got her to use biofeedback instead of sedatives for her muscle spasms, stopped paying attention to all the self-dramatizing, cut the drugs down to a level compatible with consciousness, and started getting her to think about function instead of comfort she came around like a miracle.

So far there are three groups of people I've seen who get addicted to pain meds-

1. People who've got certain kinds of pain, usually neuropathic or brain-based, that only minimally respond to the narcotics, but the docs keep pushing them anyway.
2. People who are so present-focused and enmeshed in their feelings that they aren't willing to tolerate discomfort. They usually come in with the attitude that there's some magic pill that the doctors have just been hiding from them out of malice or incompetence. These people can be tough to win around, but if they do accept the idea that the goal is function rather than complete comfort they can do really well.
3. People whose pain is either completely a symptom of major depression or massively amplified by it. You would be just plain stunned by some of the miracles I've seen ECT work in some of these folks (For one woman, 2years of debilitation and $50,000 in bills to "doctors" who sent her to spas to get detoxified from household chemicals, after ECT no pain whatsoever and talking about going back to her job.)

Jest thought I'd throw some words from the front into the discussion.


 
Yvsa; "And the drugs I am on don't always clear all the pain, but it seems that a few aches and pains are generally normal for all of us and nothing that can't be tolerated, some people just want to be vegetables and not hurt at all, nor think...." Sir as an
RN, I applaud your opinion. You just don't
how hard those simple truths are for alot of
folks to accept or even say outloud. I feel
your statements reflect a mature, healthy and functional outlook. Yvsa please live long and prosper.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Yvsa: :

"... some people just want to be vegetables and not hurt at all, nor think..."

"I just really have a problem with doc's that automatically think all the heavy drugs are bad."

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Good points, Yvsa.

It's hard to explain to those outside the addictions field how utterly typical the idea of ( medicating ) to not feel, rather than to feel good, is.

God, I'm glad there are pain specialists for you who will be aggressive. Too many have all the backbone of a bowl of jello. You've managed to keep a life worth living going thru this.

When my boy was diagnosed as autistic 15 years back a number of people wouldn't have given much of a chance that he wouldn't have been long since institutionalized by 18. ( Four months to go! ).

Without the benzodiazepines and SSRI's, I couldn't have tolerated his behaviors. But I did and do. And I'm glad and proud I was able to. So when you talk of limiting their use, to me you are really talking locking my kid away. ( Talk of putting yourself into the middle of a mine field, hehehee ).

Again, properly used, miraculous things can occur.
 
This is interesting stuff and much appreciated. Those of us who have bodies that have been pretty well used up and abused along the way all suffer with some kind of pain it seems. I went thru the biofeedback pain management course at the VA hospital here and found that it helped me learn to live with spondylolisthesis without meds. The heart meds are another deal -- can't live without them -- at least not as long. Which reminds me. I better go take my AM meds!

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
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