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HI Khuks versus Busse Battle Mistress
- Thread starter Brendan
- Start date
not2sharp
Platinum Member
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- Jun 29, 1999
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They are two very different knives. The BM is around 14 inches long, 1/4 inch wide, with a coated blade and a khydex sheath. A khukuri of similar length would be nearly twice as heavy with a spine aproaching a full 1/2 inch in thickness; and most HI knives are much larger. This, and the design ergonomics, makes the khukuri a much better chopper.
Both are differentially heat treated, but it is far more pronounced on the khukuri. The steel on the Busse is better (able to achieve a higher combination of thoughness and hardness), however, the khukuries are forged to shape; which can be a plus or minus depending on craftman doing the work, and whether he works the metal to alter its base chemical makeup.
The BM usually has an epoxy coated blade with a fairly rough finished under the coat, while the HI khukuri is finished to a high polish. Both, methods work to reduce rust, so it comes down to a question of personal preference.
The BM wears a handle of modern man made materials while the khukuri usually has a handle of either horn or wood. The BM's handle is more durable and weather resistant, while the HI handle is warmer in appearance and feel.
When it comes to the sheath the BM comes with an excellent khydex rig, while the HI khukuries come with a finicky traditional leather over wood design. Given that the BM is also much lighter, the BUSSE set is certainly easier to tote along.
I like them both. Choose which ever one fits your needs best. Better yet; take a few of each.
n2s
Both are differentially heat treated, but it is far more pronounced on the khukuri. The steel on the Busse is better (able to achieve a higher combination of thoughness and hardness), however, the khukuries are forged to shape; which can be a plus or minus depending on craftman doing the work, and whether he works the metal to alter its base chemical makeup.
The BM usually has an epoxy coated blade with a fairly rough finished under the coat, while the HI khukuri is finished to a high polish. Both, methods work to reduce rust, so it comes down to a question of personal preference.
The BM wears a handle of modern man made materials while the khukuri usually has a handle of either horn or wood. The BM's handle is more durable and weather resistant, while the HI handle is warmer in appearance and feel.
When it comes to the sheath the BM comes with an excellent khydex rig, while the HI khukuries come with a finicky traditional leather over wood design. Given that the BM is also much lighter, the BUSSE set is certainly easier to tote along.
I like them both. Choose which ever one fits your needs best. Better yet; take a few of each.
n2s
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2003
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- 473
Weight doesn't bother me as much as length. Length combined with sheath design is usually the overriding factor in portability.
No glorified kitchen knife of an overall length of 14" can ever out-chop an Ang Khola of an over all equivalent length.
The Busse has good steel, yes, but the khuk's steel, Mercedes leaf springs, is extremely good too. My 15" Ang Khola can hold an edge sharp enough to shave hairs off of my arm.
I can do things with my 15" Ang Khola that you'd never do as well with a 14" long overall length Busse, like breaking down a door or smashing a car windshield in. The 15" Ang Khola is also probably the ultimate fieldcraft tool for wilderness living/survival when you gauge usefulness vs portability. It also makes a ferocious weapon.
The traditional khukuri sheath also holds a couple of immanently valuable tools, provided that one has the foresight to exploit that feature. I use the small knife, the karda, as much as the khuk itself.
It seems that in the Himalayas, the small tools in the khuk sheath are replaced, modified, custom made, etc. A great number of the one's I've seen in khuks that have seen years of real world use are not the fancy match with the khuk like the one's that come with your HI khukuri. Out of 6 sets I've gotten so far, I've found 2 kardas and 2 chakmas from HI that were keepers, and only one pair was a matching set.
If I could get a kydex scabbard made that emulates the wood & leather scabbard, I would get one. Unfortunately most kydex sheaths try to carry a khukuri the way you'd carry a bowie, and it isn't a bowie.
I've yet to get a sheath with a khuk that didn't need serious tweaking to fit my tastes, but they can be spiffed up to be excellent field sheaths. The scabbard and frog you get from HI is a good platform to make an excellent rig.
Carrying one on one of my nylon frogs, the khuk rides out of the way of the rest of my gear and the arrangement is flexible enough to wear in a vehicle. The rig is flexible, big but useable, like the old, long bayonets of WWI. Haveing the horizontal strap/body on a frog made of leather is OK, but for practical carry, I prefer the vertical strap/loop hanger piece to be made out of nylon or canvas webbing.
No glorified kitchen knife of an overall length of 14" can ever out-chop an Ang Khola of an over all equivalent length.
The Busse has good steel, yes, but the khuk's steel, Mercedes leaf springs, is extremely good too. My 15" Ang Khola can hold an edge sharp enough to shave hairs off of my arm.
I can do things with my 15" Ang Khola that you'd never do as well with a 14" long overall length Busse, like breaking down a door or smashing a car windshield in. The 15" Ang Khola is also probably the ultimate fieldcraft tool for wilderness living/survival when you gauge usefulness vs portability. It also makes a ferocious weapon.
The traditional khukuri sheath also holds a couple of immanently valuable tools, provided that one has the foresight to exploit that feature. I use the small knife, the karda, as much as the khuk itself.
It seems that in the Himalayas, the small tools in the khuk sheath are replaced, modified, custom made, etc. A great number of the one's I've seen in khuks that have seen years of real world use are not the fancy match with the khuk like the one's that come with your HI khukuri. Out of 6 sets I've gotten so far, I've found 2 kardas and 2 chakmas from HI that were keepers, and only one pair was a matching set.
If I could get a kydex scabbard made that emulates the wood & leather scabbard, I would get one. Unfortunately most kydex sheaths try to carry a khukuri the way you'd carry a bowie, and it isn't a bowie.
I've yet to get a sheath with a khuk that didn't need serious tweaking to fit my tastes, but they can be spiffed up to be excellent field sheaths. The scabbard and frog you get from HI is a good platform to make an excellent rig.
Carrying one on one of my nylon frogs, the khuk rides out of the way of the rest of my gear and the arrangement is flexible enough to wear in a vehicle. The rig is flexible, big but useable, like the old, long bayonets of WWI. Haveing the horizontal strap/body on a frog made of leather is OK, but for practical carry, I prefer the vertical strap/loop hanger piece to be made out of nylon or canvas webbing.
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- May 18, 1999
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Two Dogs, don't buy into the hype. Yes the Busse is a good knife but I don't think it's worth the cost. There's lots of good knives out there a lot cheaper and nearly as good. IMO you can't beat the Swamp Rat line for instance.Brendan said:
And the Busse won't beat a similar sized khuk in chopping although I'm sure it would in cutting rope the longest, but how much rope do you cut?
I'd sell you my E-BM but I bought it for an investment and am gonna hang onto it until I can get more money outta it, not buddy or forumite prices.
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Yvsa said:
I know what you mean. I can't imagine a Battle Mistress being any better than my GK Bonecutter at chopping, and the BM is probably longer. I think the Busse knives are good looking, but looking at them, I just can't see that that much hand work is going into them to justify the cost. I have an EDMF Smatchet that was $90 bucks and I'd put it up against a BM any day.
t1mpani said:I'm a fan of both, own several of both. I won't take either side, but I'll ask you to take into account which forum you've posted on when you tabulate your answers.
Surely you're not implying that anyone on this forum would have a tiny, virtually undetectable, HI bias???
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"Chopping" wood, I presume. Sure a Busse can chop. However, the Busse's (I own 3) are not nearly as optimized for chopping wood as GB axes or some HI khukuris. That's hardly an adverse comment on Busse products. And a 18-24" machete would be better for harvesting grass -- hardly an adverse reflection on HI or Busse. Horses for courses.
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I own a HI BAS, a Swamp Rat Battle Rat, and a HI 20" AK. The 20" AK stomps all over the other two, and the Battle Rat has a bit more "oompf" than the BAS in the chopping department. If I've got small chopping to do, I reach for my Battle Rat; if I've got big chopping to do, I grab my 20" AK.
Sadly, this leaves my poor BAS a little lonely...I'll find a niche for her.
Sadly, this leaves my poor BAS a little lonely...I'll find a niche for her.
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- Feb 13, 2002
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Thank for all your replies guys - I have a BM-e but have not used it as I got it on a trade and the other chap hasn't received his yet ! I had a Swamp Battle Rat which was very nice but I removed the coating and it rusted pretty bad - I never really used it to chop but did loads of work with it !
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The 15" AK just isn't a chopping tool, it's an all around superb woodsman's tool and an awesome fighting weapon.
It cuts and slices well, it's also a good draw knife. One advantage is that you always have the small knife handy. The khukuri is a system, rather than being a single blade compromising to try and do all things.
The one thing that you can say about the khukuri is that it is a proven fighting and survival blade that has passed the test in the harshest climates and the most rugged and varied terrain in the world for centuries.
It's been there and done that. The natives of the Himalayas, who use their blades everyday in a manner that few in the West do on a regular basis, have the knowledge and skill to make any blade style in the world and make it well, yet they still choose the khukuri.
If you can't do it with a khukuri, you're doing it wrong.
It cuts and slices well, it's also a good draw knife. One advantage is that you always have the small knife handy. The khukuri is a system, rather than being a single blade compromising to try and do all things.
The one thing that you can say about the khukuri is that it is a proven fighting and survival blade that has passed the test in the harshest climates and the most rugged and varied terrain in the world for centuries.
It's been there and done that. The natives of the Himalayas, who use their blades everyday in a manner that few in the West do on a regular basis, have the knowledge and skill to make any blade style in the world and make it well, yet they still choose the khukuri.
If you can't do it with a khukuri, you're doing it wrong.
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This needs to be the Cantina logo and it needs to appear on the next convention tshirt
"If you can't do it with a khukuri, you're doing it wrong."
I love it!
"If you can't do it with a khukuri, you're doing it wrong."
I love it!
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- Sep 11, 2002
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I have a Battle Mistress and a variety of HI khuks. They are different animals. I really prefer khuks for chopping, and the rounded handle is much nicer for hand-shock and retention. The new (unavailable now) BMs will have a thick handle option, but the old flat micarta handles twist in your hand often under heavy chopping.
The Busse holds its edge longer, but is harder to resharpen. It is not stainless. I have trouble cutting with most khuks except my UBE, the curve just throws me off. I think you get a good bargain with Swamp Rat, and a better bargain with HI. If I could throw away $600 or so, I'd try to break my BM and my AK Bowie. I don't think I could break either without using heavy machinery. BMs have been used to chop cinder blocks and cut people out of flipped Jeeps, and I am sure the AK Bowie could do the same.
I have a few Busses, and I'll agree they are enshrouded in hype because they are used by military folks, and often hard to get. I do think they are of the highest quality and worth the price if you want an indestructible blade.
But for the price, you can't beat an HI. It's a matter of preference; if you like something that was built entirely by hand, of a design proven for centuries, with an ironclad guarantee, you buy HI. There is no substitute.
As for the khukuri being the perfect knife, that's preference as well. It does everything, some better than others (chop, of course). I like to think the 21" Gelbu is the best balance between fighter and chopper, but I'd still take a Bowie like my Cherokee Rose (thanks Yvsa) over a khuk in a fight.
The Busse holds its edge longer, but is harder to resharpen. It is not stainless. I have trouble cutting with most khuks except my UBE, the curve just throws me off. I think you get a good bargain with Swamp Rat, and a better bargain with HI. If I could throw away $600 or so, I'd try to break my BM and my AK Bowie. I don't think I could break either without using heavy machinery. BMs have been used to chop cinder blocks and cut people out of flipped Jeeps, and I am sure the AK Bowie could do the same.
I have a few Busses, and I'll agree they are enshrouded in hype because they are used by military folks, and often hard to get. I do think they are of the highest quality and worth the price if you want an indestructible blade.
But for the price, you can't beat an HI. It's a matter of preference; if you like something that was built entirely by hand, of a design proven for centuries, with an ironclad guarantee, you buy HI. There is no substitute.
As for the khukuri being the perfect knife, that's preference as well. It does everything, some better than others (chop, of course). I like to think the 21" Gelbu is the best balance between fighter and chopper, but I'd still take a Bowie like my Cherokee Rose (thanks Yvsa) over a khuk in a fight.
Nasty
Chief Cook & Bottle Wash
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I have no doubt about the chopping part, while as for the slicing portion, those of us who attended the sharpening clinic Dan put on will remember the ease our Khuks offered after proper sharpening at free hanging rope tests. Only Dan's personal effort (on Bruise's knife) beat out our Khuks...and then, it was only a matter "tic" vs "chuk" sounds as they snipped through the rope.
I *personally* can't see the difference in value...the BM and other such stamped out and machine sharpened knives are Craftsman tools. Good steel, good quality, but simple machine products vs crafted items. Not *my* cup of tea...but good none the less.
ps: I still remember the awe when Tom Linton took his 800 year old Japanese sword to the rope..."swish" with no hesitation. Tom...when was it last sharpened? 500 years ago?
I *personally* can't see the difference in value...the BM and other such stamped out and machine sharpened knives are Craftsman tools. Good steel, good quality, but simple machine products vs crafted items. Not *my* cup of tea...but good none the less.
ps: I still remember the awe when Tom Linton took his 800 year old Japanese sword to the rope..."swish" with no hesitation. Tom...when was it last sharpened? 500 years ago?
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Nasty said:
693 years. No obvious signs of sharpening when I got it 21 years ago and certainly not sharpened since.
t1mpani
Platinum Member
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Not disputing the BM's ability to do this (or that it has ever been done), but if you're talking about the recent incident, it was actually a Battle Rat that was used.Mr.BadExample said:
I have HI, Busse and Swamp Rat, and would give none of them up.
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Thomas Linton said:
That sword's gotta be past it's best before date.
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BruiseLeee said:
Nope. Yvsa convinced me. Steel gets better with age. This one will be a real beauty at 1000.