HI owner, Kami Sherpa, making a handle

Bill Martino

Bill Martino

Joined
Mar 5, 1999
Messages
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Here is Kami during his last visit to Reno. He's making a new handle to replace a damaged one. Inside the white circle you can get a look at the Nepali tapered tang that is standard for our khukuris.

Bill


<img src = "http://members.aol.com/yangduspag/pict19.jpg">
 
That kind of work almost looks instinctive from the casual way he is doing it.
 
What I find interesting is how "rat-tail tangs" or "stick tangs" have had a generally poor rep in the US for a long time now. But here we have an example of a tough-as-hell knife with what looks like a very modest tang.

Kevin McClung does something almost similar, his tangs are fat but short, they don't run the full length of the grip by ANY means, actually less than half. He gets away with it because his synthetic grip material is a LOT tougher than wood, it can actually form a cutting blade in it's own right, see also the "Frequent Flyer" series. And there's the Japanese Sword examples with modest tangs.

What they all have in common is GOOD differencial tempers. The steel at the tang is tough as hell but too soft for actual edgeholding, only the cutting edge is hardened to "almost brittle" levels.

Meaning...all those problems we've seen with stick tangs on other pieces come from uniformly-tempered pieces or the edge was tempered but the tang remained dead soft. See also Hilton Yam's torture test article/photos wherein a KaBar stick-tang gave way completely, fairly classic example of the type of failure noted for these tangs.

Really interesting. The heat-treat is a lot more critical than the tang design.

Jim March
 
When I first inquired about getting a khukuri from Bill the handle was probably my biggest concern. It also didn't help when he informed me of the shape of the tang. Anyway, I wouldn't go as far as saying heat treat is more important but rather say both are very important.

Note the HI khukuri tangs are different than a lot of stick tangs in one respect and that is that they extend the whole length of the handle. This is one of the major difference between the HI khukuris and a khukuri you are likely to find someone using in Nepal. As Bill explained before they usually don't do a full handle drill out with an end cap and use a much weaker design which has to be brought in for repairs on a semi-regular basis.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 11 March 1999).]
 
Couple of notes. The tang is dead soft but once handle is fitted and set with Himalayan epoxy it IS tough as hell.

Interestingly, Kami uses only a power 3/8 in drill for his handle making -- everything else is done with a few hand tools. He had never used a power drill in his life. After a couple of practice runs he could blind drill thru (had to, I didn't have a drill long enough) and make the holes meet!

Another interesting note is Kami can't work at a bench, sitting on a chair. Has to do it Nepali style as you see in the picture.

And Jim, you want to give them a high tech shop?

Bill
 
Bill, are any Nepalese khukuris made with two piece handles and not the 'rat tail' tang? Some of my finer pieces and most of my WW I knives have the full tang with two rivets securing the wood grips with a curved metal cap drilled in two places for the end of the tang. Wonderful photo by the way.

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JP
 
Bill: Yep. Just mount the stuff on the floor and let 'em sit on mats or something...only the ergonomics needs are different.

Hell, if they like working on the floor so much, cool, you just saved the shipping costs for the STANDS for all the power tools. A drill press might look pretty funny to our eyes sitting on the floor sans stand. Western tradition is to mount everything three to four feet off the ground as in Kevin's shop but floormount on simple boards would be *easier* and if anything, safety would go UP.

Note: yes, I now know this is all theory due to the political climate. As I said in the other thread, I'm very glad you explained the current realities.

Jim March
 
John, the handle you describe we call a "pana butta" in Nepal which means rivet thru. It is rarely made in Nepal but is the standard in India -- one of the keys in tracing your khukuris heritage. For obvious reasons I am partial to the Nepali khukuri but I do have in my collection an Ivory handled pana butta made in India and I would rate it among the top five in my collection.

And, Jim, if the electricity were ever on enough down at the shop to operate the power equipment (you'd have to have your own generator to make the thing work) I am positive the kamis would work sitting on the floor with equipment appropriately mounted.

Bill
 
Like Cliff, when I first entered the world of HI Imports, I honestly had reservations about the handles,tapered tangs, and the "Himalayan Epoxy". Bill patiently asserted the efficacy of the Nepalese wonder glue,the shock absorption of the tapered tangs, and the fine track record of his horn handles. This despite my comments on Devcon epoxy and full tang "pana butta" handles.

I can say like Cliff, that Bill's detached professionalism in answering my concerns,is one reason I ordered one to see for myself.

Yes the tapered rattail tang is not a full one.But when you construct it out of a 3/8 thick slab of spring steel,that's why you get a blade(HI khukuri) thats like a brick sheethouse.

Most Randalls utilize a narrow tang,and they are also legendary for toughness. Fine heat treatment and O1 steel does wonders.

I might still yet file off the peened end of the tang on my BAS,boil the handle off, and JB weld it just because I'm a redundant, bulletproof construction loving type of guy sometimes. Personal customization is enjoyable. When I finally get to test my BAS, I hope to incorporate "Stamp of Approval" like testing with the stuff that Hilton did on the Seal blades(ATAK's) Missions's etc, with chin ups and other great abuses. The substantive feel of even my BAS which is relatively light, should support anyone that can chin their bodyweight, When Hilton tested the KaBar, it failed during chin ups at the handle/tang juncture because of lack of heat treat at that point,and also no doubt due to the lack of suitable thickness of the steel stock.

My BAS combines a lively,light,and dynamic feel for a large blade, with an overall sense of M1Abrams Tank tough. A rare blend of attributes.

Stay safe and all the best, Phil <---<



[This message has been edited by Phil Squire (edited 12 March 1999).]
 
Here he goes again. "Yeah, I have a panna butta, but it's IVORY"! First you post the picture of one of the prettiest khukuris I've ever seen, then you pull this stunt. COBALT take note: Bill Martino has way too many ivory handled pieces and should give some away.

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JP
 
You are right John. Tell you what you take the pana buta handled one and I'll take the Nepalese tapered tang version. I just can't handle that name "pana buta", it sounds like some sort of sex act.
 
The kamis can't stand that name either. I had a run of six made years back for some Bando people. The kamis gave me so much hell about it I never asked them to make another pana butta.

Bill
 
About what Phil commented on, I find that to be one of the most important aspects in a knife dealer / maker. There are a lot of people who will try to tell you you what you need when of course you are the only one who knows what you will be doing with it. Similarly questioning the claims or design choices can often get you into unfriendly ground.

If you take a look back in knifeforums.com over a year ago you will see some posts by me asking about the durability of the HI products note I was discussing getting one with Bill at the time and he had no problems with me having doubt about his products.

He did rib me about it a bit after I posted my initial review though, but that was warrented
smile.gif


-Cliff
 
I forgot to mention this. When Kami was ready to fit up his first handle there was no Himalayan epoxy available. What to do? We went over to Supply One and picked up some US made epoxy. I showed Kami how to use it. He mixed some wood dust from his rasping and sanding work, mixed it with the epoxy, and Bingo!

Kami fell in love with the US epoxy (can't remember the brand off hand). It didn't smell nasty, you didn't have to bring it to a boil to make it work, and if you spilled some you didn't burn your hand. And it held! Great stuff -- so Kami took six or eight packs of US epoxy back with him to give to the Kamis. So just in case you get an HI khukuri that has US epoxy rather than Himalayan now you know. But I am sure it has all been used up by now.

Kami should be here later this year so if anybody wants a nice looking handle (Rusty has one made by Kami I sent him just recently and he can tell you about the quality of craftsmanship) made out of purple heart, mahagony, teak or whatever let us know and Kami will do it. He's really good.

Bill
 
That he is. I've very small hands (5'4" tall) and the 12" Sirupati is unbelievably ergonomic for me. Kami rehandled the 15" Sirupati I have in oak for an average size hand, and I mean to take it down in size to near that of the 12". But when I pick up the 15" to contemplate doing that, it seems blasphemous, and a faint odor of sulfur and brimstone starts emanating as I bring file and sandpaper near the handle. I do have some elk antlers that may be suitable for the larger knives, still thinking on that.




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Russ S
 
Rusty, I know Kami would not mind in the least if you modified his handle for a better fit to your hand. He knows as well as anybody that making the khukuri comfortable to you is a matter of personal preference and the more comfortable it is, the better you can use it.

Bill
 
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