HI Seax (Scramsax), Anglo-Saxon knife, or, Wessex meets Gorkha

beoram

beoram

Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
1,780
Picking up from Sarge's post (Ferrous Wheel - ignore this thread) - what about an HI Seax?

Here's some images to get us started:
seax.jpg

sax11.4.02.jpg

sax6.5.02.jpg

Sax.JPG

Scrams.gif

knives.gif

seax-rune.jpg

lak006b.jpg


It's not a complicated blade-form. Perhaps if we could get someone (like Pen) to do up some schematics and someone (like Dave K) to do a wood model?

I'd really love to own an HI Seax!

Here is a page on Saxon Seaxs - like khukuris, they were used as all-purpose tools...
 
If it has a nice fuller, I'm in! I kinda think the HI AKBowie is seax-ish...if we drew out the futhark(runic alphabet) for the kamis, maybe they'd hammer strike them on the blades, like the deep engraving on some of the specialty khuks and kardas...

I still can't ignore this thread for some reason...I like the top pic a lot, Beo.. where's it from?

Keith
 
Ferrous - the top pic is from http://sjaqua.tripod.com/

Yes, a fuller would be nice - though it should be in the middle of the blade unlike a khuk.

The runes might be difficult - I don't know how time consuming the hammer-striking for 'metal-engraving' is. It would be fabulous if they could.

--B.
 
Sigh, so pretty. Guys check out the selection of scrams at www.jelldragon.com the plain antler handled ones appeal to my simple tastes.

Sarge

hmmm, I've still got that big old file and hunk of antler, hmmmm........
 
yep put my down for the H.I scram with or without fullers...got 2 now Paul Chen and Lutel would love to add H.I scram
sweet-216.jpg
 
Just remember to put the scabbard on it. In these times, safe seax isn't an option, it's a necessity.

S.
 
I'm quite surprised that someone hasn't came along wanting a guard put on any Seax.:rolleyes: ;)

Here's one off the site that Sarge gave us that I kinda like. The handle design, similar to the really old style khukuris, is broader at the base where it joins the blade than it is at the butt end.
You would be surprised just how far that simple design feature goes in eliminateing any guard for these and similar style knives.

The "creeping cho" has gone a long way to prevent injury from the cho on modern khuks, but that reverse swelled handle on the old style models served its purpose to prevent the hand from sliding forward on those khukuris.:)

PBS1a_brzend.jpg


I'm sort of wondering about the fuller on the Seaxes, especially the old ones.
They appear to be to narrow to be of much use in making the Seaxes lighter and except for the longer slender blade styles they don't appear to be substantial enough to really add much of a strengthening feature.

Anyone else notice this, or is it just me? What do y'all think?
Surely it wouldn't of been there for just decoration would you think??
Usually those old ones always had a useful purpose for anything that was made an integral part of the blade structure IMO.
This really puzzles me!!!!:confused:
 
N2S -

Yes, some of the styles (for seaxes appear to come in quite a variety of forms, not surprisingly) do look sort of like Bowie knives, particularly perhaps (f) from below?:
knives.gif


I would assume that seaxes are actually one of the ancestors of Bowie knives, assuming that English (and German(ic)?) settlers in the American colonies brought some 'traditional' knives with them, some of which would have descended from the seax-form.

Yvsa -

Actually, if you look at the one modern seax that sweet posted, it does seem to have a 'mini' guard. However, from the 'period' seaxes, all of them (or most of them at least) seem to lack guards. There seem to be various ways, elegant and simple too as you point out, of 'solving' this 'problem'. One is the widening of the handle at the base where it joins the blade. Some of them also seem to have curved handles (which is what I assume you mean by 'reverse swelled'?) like some khukuris. And I notice one of the forms seems to resemble a meat clever, so that the back of the blade itself, by extending past the base of the handle, prevents hand-slipping.

On the fullers, I wonder about this too. ON the one you posted, the 'fuller' seems to be in the equivalent place to the aunlo bal (Nepali for 'finger of strength', as JP tells me is (one of) the correct term(s) for the 'blood-gutter' on a kukri). I don't know if the aunlo bal serves any functional purpose on a khukuri? And on later mediaeval broad-swords and the like, there is usually a fuller running down the middle of the blade, but sometimes it is rather narrow (and non-functional perhaps?). I don't know. Is there a (functional) purpose other than lightening/strengthening a blade for 'grooves' in a blade?
 
On the topic of fullers on smaller seaxes, I'd say they did it for the same reason KaBar put one on the famed USMC fighting knife, --looks cool! My rule is this -- fullers on something weighing under a pound is merely an artistic feature.

Same goes with fullers on bayonets, like the Mauser Bayo or the M1 Garand bayo.

Back in the day (circa 700CE) the fullers on big blades may have also been a way to cut down on metal usage without sacrificing strength.

Keith
 
William "Tinker" Pierce has mentioned that khukuris and seaxes may both in fact be descendants of the falcata and simply evolved differently in the environments of northern Europe and the northern subcontinent respectively.
 
Speaking of the old time tinkers, part of their stock in trade was the repair of pots and pans with which the cooking surfaces were often coated inside with tin. That eventually wore off and the pan retinned. Sometimes there weren't opportunities to do so when needed and eventually a hole would appear in the bottom of the pan.

When this happened, it was set aside and when the tinker arrived he would turn the pan over to it's outside and roll a piece of clay the shape of a worm and press it into place around the hole making a dam, into which he'd pour in a thicker plug of tin. when the tin had cooled somewhat, he'd remove the now useless dam and throw it away, then hammer the plug down more evenly. Then the inside could be re-tinned.

And that is how the phrase " not worth a tinker's dam " came into being.
 
Originally posted by beoram
...Perhaps if we could get someone (like Pen) to do up some schematics...
Click to expand...
Back from a business trip and ready to go...

Beo - I got your email(s) ;)
 
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