Hidden tangs for bushcraft?

bindlestitch

bindlestitch

Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
1,461
I've seen it, I'm sure you've seen it. Some people say a hidden tang is a weak design for a woodsman's knife, I say that's nonsense.
[youtube]3Y7PiRjkN8k[/youtube]

Hope you like it.
Iz
 
Iz, thanks for making clear point:design and quality of steel rules over quantity of steel. I can't agree more with you.
I'm not a fan of "destruction tests" for the hell of it, but when done for the right purpose, makes a strong argument. Still hurts watching tho.
That was/is a great knife:thumbup:

On a different note, what's the name of that band? (Looks like you would enjoy Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds)
 
Enjoyed the video and I agree completely with regards to the integrity of the properly made narrow-tang. I have a number of custom-made, high-performance narrow-tang knives in my collection that will easily outlive many full-tang models (same collection) of similar size and steel under excessive stress conditions. I might add; I also have a few narrow-tang knives in my historic collection that helped settle this great country. The old narrow-tang knives are still here, while the makers and several subsequent owners have long been dead. ;)

"Many of my early knives were full-tang; that's how I learned everything that can go wrong with full-tang knives. As I saw the results from rough use, abuse and even knives that had been lost and laid out in the weather for a season or two. This got me thinking about using narrow-tang construction. The exposed edges of a full-tang are an open invitation for loosening, breaking or such. Properly done, the narrow-tang knife is superior because it is a sealed unit and there is less to go wrong with it on a rough-use knife."

-- Wayne Goddard, ABS Master Smith

I have little clue as to what a "bushcraft knife" is since its definitions seem to be as diverse as the members and skills here on the forums (yes, I know all about Ray Mears...and a few others). My generation, here in this country, in these parts, still use the basic term, "camping and woodcraft." I suppose the tool requirements of either are not too dissimilar and the properly made full or narrow-tang would fit the task equally as well. :)
 
I really enjoyed the video, and really hated seeing you break that knife...honestly, I am sick of seeing any knives destroyed to " show me anything" ...
If someone wants to only buy full tang knives, I say let em..
You did a great job on the video, I actually watched the hole thing, and usually, I dont make it 12 minutes.
Where did that knife come from, and HOW COME I havent heard of them before??? That was a really great knife!
 
I have several full tang knives and they are pretty strong (BK-2, BK-7, BK-9), I would trust them with hard use to not break. But a properly made hidden tang knife shouldn't break either. If I had the money to spend I'd love to buy a Turley custom made knife and I would be fine with a hidden tang design as long as it was tough enough to handle the use I would put it through. Anyone that claims that ONLY full tang knives are tough enough for survival and hard use are just ignorant.
 
Anyone that claims that ONLY full tang knives are tough enough for survival and hard use are just ignorant.
Click to expand...

Every "survival" knife (terminology first used by the military for the Pilots Survival Knife) that I was ever issued as an aviator in the military had a narrow tang. When these knives broke (I have seen many and broke one myself) under use and abuse, they didn't break at the annealed tang, they generally broke at the *point* where most knives seem to break first. Several of the production variety narrow tangs out there have built-in stress risers where the tang meets the blade or, poor heat treats. Either can make the narrow or full-tang fail prematurely.
 
Hi all,

Stick tangs are tough, bindlestich showed that in his vid, but if your handle comes loose or even breaks for what ever reason and now you have to use that stick tang knife for your cutting and carving chores :eek: yikes. Try using that stick tang on seasoned hard wood. YUCK.

Give me full tang anyday over stick tang.

Being that I make knives I have tried both and this is one reason why all my knives are full tang. Most if not all knife makers will take that knife that they are making and use it before they put the handles. They will chop and carve and cut things up. Then test the edge again and make sure there are no soft spots.

Like I said use a stick tang knife on seasoned wood carve for a few minutes and then use a full tang with no handles on it. There is a big difference in how your hand feels and how your carving went.

Take care all,

Bryan
 
Iz Great video!!!!

Hmmm....didn't know you made hidden tangs with a striking nut. I love that deisgn.

My 52100 chopper is a hidden tang.
 
tek77 said:
Iz, thanks for making clear point:design and quality of steel rules over quantity of steel. I can't agree more with you.
I'm not a fan of "destruction tests" for the hell of it, but when done for the right purpose, makes a strong argument. Still hurts watching tho.
That was/is a great knife:thumbup:

On a different note, what's the name of that band? (Looks like you would enjoy Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds)
Click to expand...
Thanks, Tek.
The first song is called "salt" performed by Madrugada and the second song is called "Child of calamity" by the Pine box boys. :thumbup:
I'll defiantly look up the Nick cave thing.


Dannyboy Leather said:
Enjoyed the video and I agree completely with regards to the integrity of the properly made narrow-tang. I have a number of custom-made, high-performance narrow-tang knives in my collection that will easily outlive many full-tang models (same collection) of similar size and steel under excessive stress conditions. I might add; I also have a few narrow-tang knives in my historic collection that helped settle this great country. The old narrow-tang knives are still here, while the makers and several subsequent owners have long been dead. ;)

"Many of my early knives were full-tang; that's how I learned everything that can go wrong with full-tang knives. As I saw the results from rough use, abuse and even knives that had been lost and laid out in the weather for a season or two. This got me thinking about using narrow-tang construction. The exposed edges of a full-tang are an open invitation for loosening, breaking or such. Properly done, the narrow-tang knife is superior because it is a sealed unit and there is less to go wrong with it on a rough-use knife."

-- Wayne Goddard, ABS Master Smith

I have little clue as to what a "bushcraft knife" is since its definitions seem to be as diverse as the members and skills here on the forums (yes, I know all about Ray Mears...and a few others). My generation, here in this country, in these parts, still use the basic term, "camping and woodcraft." I suppose the tool requirements of either are not too dissimilar and the properly made full or narrow-tang would fit the task equally as well. :)
Click to expand...
Dannyboy,
I love that Goddard quote. It makes me smile. :D
Yeah, I'm same as you. I'd never heard the term bushcraft until I got online. The word woodsman is what I prefer to use but not many people on the net relate that term to what we do. You say bushcraft and most of them know what you're talking about.
Thanks, man.

gunknifenut said:
I really enjoyed the video, and really hated seeing you break that knife...honestly, I am sick of seeing any knives destroyed to " show me anything" ...
If someone wants to only buy full tang knives, I say let em..
You did a great job on the video, I actually watched the hole thing, and usually, I dont make it 12 minutes.
Where did that knife come from, and HOW COME I havent heard of them before??? That was a really great knife!
Click to expand...
Gkn,
I hear you, I hate long videos. Hate them with a passion. There's very few I can get all the way through so I really tried to make this one shorter. There was lots more abuse that I cut out just for that reason. Thanks for hanging in there with me. :D
The knife came from me. I made it last year some time for personal use. I'm not real popular on these forums so that's probably why you haven't heard of my knives I'm guessing. Thanks for the kind words, brother.:thumbup:

sicily02 said:
Hi all,

Stick tangs are tough, bindlestich showed that in his vid, but if your handle comes loose or even breaks for what ever reason and now you have to use that stick tang knife for your cutting and carving chores :eek: yikes. Try using that stick tang on seasoned hard wood. YUCK.

Give me full tang anyday over stick tang.

Being that I make knives I have tried both and this is one reason why all my knives are full tang. Most if not all knife makers will take that knife that they are making and use it before they put the handles. They will chop and carve and cut things up. Then test the edge again and make sure there are no soft spots.

Like I said use a stick tang knife on seasoned wood carve for a few minutes and then use a full tang with no handles on it. There is a big difference in how your hand feels and how your carving went.

Take care all,

Bryan
Click to expand...
Bryan,
I hear ya. But I don't agree with that way of thinking. No disrespect intended, just a difference of opinion.
I honestly can't see a micarta and steel pinned handle coming off under even the worst situation and I'm abusive even in my normal use. I've taken apart more of these things than I can count because I screwed something up when making them. It's not an easy task. I usually involves hammers, drills, pliers and a toaster oven. heh.
If it did by some miracle then I'd just put a new handle on it in the woods. I'd either jamb on a green limb or I'd wrap the handle in my handkerchief and then wrap that with some willow bark (or other) cordage. That would be enough to get me by I'm thinking.
You're right though, using a bare hidden tang is no fun at all.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and for your civility.
Iz
 
Stick tangs are tough, bindlestich showed that in his vid, but if your handle comes loose or even breaks for what ever reason and now you have to use that stick tang knife for your cutting and carving chores yikes. Try using that stick tang on seasoned hard wood. YUCK.
Click to expand...

Bryan,

Years back, I assembled a couple of stick tangs/handles using Brownells Acraglas to see how well the Acraglas would hold up (I used Acraglas normally for bedding gunstocks). The effort that it took to dismantle the handles (my experiment) some time later went FAR BEYOND what a normal person could possibly do to a knife handle in the bush (my 2-year-old grandson would find a way, however). Those handles were coming off for NO ONE and it took a combination of sweat and power tools to get the job done. I essentially had to grind the handles off ruining the tang. I have several narrow or hidden tang knives in my collection made by a number of ABS Master Smithy types who also use Acraglass filler rather than inexpensive epoxies. Now I understand why! Too, the Acraglass will hold its bond longer than most of us will be around (unlike most epoxies that have a relatively short bond life by comparison).

If for some crazy insane reason my narrow-tang fails, I have a WONDERFUL Bryan Breeden knife in my pack that I thoroughly enjoy using. :D Too, I really like the maker! :thumbup:
 
Buy this man a ski mask!


Iz,
Nice video and you made a very strong example of your knife

The real title of the thread is
"High quality custom made knives with hidden tangs for Bushcraft"
And it needs a disclaimer like on superman costumes,
Please don't do this with a production hidden tang knife

The stress from batoning on a hidden tang knife is the lenght of the spine.
(The stress is not as side blows as you showed)
The fear of failure is where the hidden tang thins near to the handle and also failure of the tang holding to the handle
Clearly your knives will hold.
But doubtful if a production hidden tang knife would hold
 
Good job Iz. That is a testament to your heat treating also. Beating on a knife with a 3 lb. hammer goes waaaaaaaaaayyy beyond what any human can do to a knife in the field. I did something similar with a PSK knife. I used a 3 lb. hammer as my baton.:D Broke the blade at the drill hole in the handle while it was stuck in a big knot. The blade came through with no issues.
Scott
 
Gossman Knives said:
Good job Iz. That is a testament to your heat treating also. Beating on a knife with a 3 lb. hammer goes waaaaaaaaaayyy beyond what any human can do to a knife in the field. I did something similar with a PSK knife. I used a 3 lb. hammer as my baton.:D Broke the blade at the drill hole in the handle while it was stuck in a big knot. The blade came through with no issues.
Scott
Click to expand...
I appreciate that, brother.
A three lb sledge to a psk?! :eek:That's crazier than me.:D


mct453 said:
Great video. I just wish I had seen it about 10.5 months ago.
Click to expand...
Lol. It'll go by fast, brother.:thumbup:

Thanks everybody.
Iz
 
Great info Iz, but I would of happily took your word on it and spare that beauty of a knife...

I know, I know,you will just make another..

Soon you will be telling us a that stainless steels can work for "bushcraft" too..... :p


Thanks for the sacrafice bro!
 
Actually Tony, my personal choice for my own knife for anything under 4.5" would be hidden tang in stainless like S35VN, S30V, CPM154.

I agree with what you said about properly done hidden tang knives. I only do a lot of full tang knives because most people seem to prefer them and they're so much easier to do. Same thing with carbon steels, they're easier and a lot of people, especially the guys here prefer them for woods knives.
 
Ray your framed tangs are things of beauty. And stout too, I wouldn't hesitate to play rough with one
 
raylaconico said:
Actually Tony, my personal choice for my own knife for anything under 4.5" would be hidden tang in stainless like S35VN, S30V, CPM154.
Click to expand...
Great choices in steel Ray. :thumbup:

Alittle OT but I'm really tried of the misconceptions about stainless steels, especially the CPM steels. I would put them up against any carbon steel any day of the week. The CPM steels can hold their own for hard use.
Scott
 
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