Hidden tangs for bushcraft?

[raylaconico]

Great choices in steel Ray. :thumbup:

Alittle OT but I'm really tried of the misconceptions about stainless steels, especially the CPM steels. I would put them up against any carbon steel any day of the week. The CPM steels can hold their own for hard use.
Scott

Yeah Scott, I love the CPM steels and I'm not afraid about sharpening them either. I hear a lot of folks say they don't like these steels because they think they're difficult to sharpen. To me they sharpen up the same as any steel and they take a great edge. Maybe I just can't tell the difference. The only steel I have any difficulty getting a good edge are the really low grade ones found in cheap chinese kitchen knives. I think they're 420 or 440a or something like that.

 

[j williams]

Outstanding video Iz.....I was waiting for this one....

No arguement that full tangs are stronger, but I wouldnt hesitate to use one after seeing your video. I just cant see a well built hidden tang not holding up to most anything anyone needs to do in the woods. If batoning some huge chunk of hardwood, use wedges. It seems that the hidden tang debate centers on batoning. I dont see any reason to baton huge chunks of wood without the use of wedges regardless of tang construction. If that knife stood up to what you did to it, woods tasks will be a piece of cake.

Iz Turley makes some of the best knives Ive ever seen, and had the pleasure to use. He is a real outdoorsman, who tests every one of his knives with actual Bushcraft skills. His youtube channell is absolutely filled with wonderfull videos on blades, sharpening, knife tech, axe tech, and tons of usefull hardwoods based information. I strongly urge everyone who wants to be a better outdoorsman to watch his work. Ive been to classes with Iz, to the woods with him, and to his shop. He is the real deal, and I have learned a ton from him. I have a strong respect to bladesmiths who are outdoorsman too, and you can always tell who is the real deal, and who is fakin the funk.

 

[j williams]

It says alot that Gossman and Laconico both dig the stainless. I love my woods knife from Ray, its my goto "bushcraft" knife, along with my Tusker from Scott. Gossman blades have ALWAYS proven themselves. I really want to try something in S35VN. If I remember correctly Ban is working with that steel too.

Ray, you and Ban should get together for a colab!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Great choices in steel Ray. :thumbup:

Alittle OT but I'm really tried of the misconceptions about stainless steels, especially the CPM steels. I would put them up against any carbon steel any day of the week. The CPM steels can hold their own for hard use.
Scott

I think that's primarily because you say "Stainless steel knife" and most people think of knives made with 420, 440A, Aus8 and the like, or worse the "Made in China" mystery stainless in Wal*Mart and gas station knives.

I think the main anti-stainless argument you get around here is it's not good for striking a fire steel/flint. But then, I don't know why they don't use the striker that comes with the ferro rod, or a proper striking steel for their flint instead of their knife, but I digress. . .


I've explained this before on the HI forum, but the reason I want my hard use blades (not necessarily my light use, like bushcraft) is not so much for the strength, but because I don't have the skill to re-handle a standard tang should I have to, but just about any dummy can wrap an exposed tang with paracord, ore find some way to pin a couple pieces of wood to it and file/sand/gnaw it to shape.

 

[Gossman Knives]

I think that's primarily because you say "Stainless steel knife" and most people think of knives made with 420, 440A, Aus8 and the like, or worse the "Made in China" mystery stainless in Wal*Mart and gas station knives.

I think the main anti-stainless argument you get around here is it's not good for striking a fire steel/flint. But then, I don't know why they don't use the striker that comes with the ferro rod, or a proper striking steel for their flint instead of their knife, but I digress. . .


I've explained this before on the HI forum, but the reason I want my hard use blades (not necessarily my light use, like bushcraft) is not so much for the strength, but because I don't have the skill to re-handle a standard tang should I have to, but just about any dummy can wrap an exposed tang with paracord, ore find some way to pin a couple pieces of wood to it and file/sand/gnaw it to shape.

Your first paragragh is exactly the problem with SS, especially for new people looking for knives. Too much misinformation being posted on different forums. As far as striking a ferro rod with a SS blade, I've done it many times. As long as the spine is squared off enough it will work. The best striker I have is the spine of the saw blade on my Leatherman.
Back to the original topic, Iz is right on about hidden tangs. The most common problem comes into play with sharp 90 degree angles where the stick tang and ricasso merge.
Scott

 

[j williams]

You talkin stress risors Scott??? What exactly are those? Ive heard that term before....

Right on. Any sharp corner will sprk a ferro rod. Ive done it with a rock.

 

[bindlestitch]

Great info Iz, but I would of happily took your word on it and spare that beauty of a knife...

I know, I know,you will just make another..

Soon you will be telling us a that stainless steels can work for "bushcraft" too.....


Thanks for the sacrafice bro!

Thanks, brother. :thumbup: Btw, you're gonna have to recount the ballots in the election, I'm pretty sure I'm the president of the mora haters club.

Actually Tony, my personal choice for my own knife for anything under 4.5" would be hidden tang in stainless like S35VN, S30V, CPM154.

I agree with what you said about properly done hidden tang knives. I only do a lot of full tang knives because most people seem to prefer them and they're so much easier to do. Same thing with carbon steels, they're easier and a lot of people, especially the guys here prefer them for woods knives.

Ray,
You hit it square on the head I think. I don't build many hidden tangs anymore for the exact reasons you mentioned. They take more time to make, require more attention to fit up and nobody wants to pay the higher cost. But to be honest I don't know what made them fall out of favor with people. Maybe it's because of the misconceptions they formed after having factory knives fail on them? I don't know but it's kinda sad that we've moved away from what is a beautiful and historic design.
Love your stuff, man.:thumbup:

Outstanding video Iz.....I was waiting for this one....

No arguement that full tangs are stronger, but I wouldnt hesitate to use one after seeing your video. I just cant see a well built hidden tang not holding up to most anything anyone needs to do in the woods. If batoning some huge chunk of hardwood, use wedges. It seems that the hidden tang debate centers on batoning. I dont see any reason to baton huge chunks of wood without the use of wedges regardless of tang construction. If that knife stood up to what you did to it, woods tasks will be a piece of cake.

Iz Turley makes some of the best knives Ive ever seen, and had the pleasure to use. He is a real outdoorsman, who tests every one of his knives with actual Bushcraft skills. His youtube channell is absolutely filled with wonderfull videos on blades, sharpening, knife tech, axe tech, and tons of usefull hardwoods based information. I strongly urge everyone who wants to be a better outdoorsman to watch his work. Ive been to classes with Iz, to the woods with him, and to his shop. He is the real deal, and I have learned a ton from him. I have a strong respect to bladesmiths who are outdoorsman too, and you can always tell who is the real deal, and who is fakin the funk.

I appreciate that, J. I really do, man. It's very kind of you to say. You're a pretty dang good student, too. So good that I'm running out of things to teach.:thumbup:

Your first paragragh is exactly the problem with SS, especially for new people looking for knives. Too much misinformation being posted on different forums. As far as striking a ferro rod with a SS blade, I've done it many times. As long as the spine is squared off enough it will work. The best striker I have is the spine of the saw blade on my Leatherman.
Back to the original topic, Iz is right on about hidden tangs. The most common problem comes into play with sharp 90 degree angles where the stick tang and ricasso merge.
Scott

Scott,
I agree, sharp spines are what make firesteels spark not the type of steel the knife is made of.
Some day I'd like to pick your brain on some of the stainless stuff, I want to test some of it someday when I get some time. I know you've worked with different types and tested them a lot so I know I'll be asking the right person when I do.:thumbup:

I gotta say this is a great conversation going on here. There's lots of myths that need brought out in the light when it comes to a woodsman's knife. :thumbup:

Thanks everybody.
Iz

 

[lambertiana]

I have no problem with stick tangs; in fact, the two fixed blades that I use the most are these two (Ray knows how to make them):

And Ray, now that you mention it, I think I need a fixed blade from you with an S35VN blade.

 

[bindlestitch]

Those are beauties, lambertiana.
Iz

 

[Rockywolf]

Man, Iz, I would have loved to snag that knife before you decided to destroy it. Good video.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I like any maker who puts their ass on the line and stands behind their work. I agree that stick/hidden tangs get a bad rap. A properly made knife, no matter which style of handle treatment should be able to withstand hard use. Building a good knife will always be a compromise.... a give and take among hardness, strength, toughness, sharpness, ductility, wear, ease of sharpening, resistence to shock and corrosion.

Good job.

Rick

 

[bindlestitch]

Thanks, Rocky and Rick. I appreciate it!
I totally agree with you, Rick. I don't think that sometimes people understand that making a knife always involves trade offs.
Iz