Hideaway Kinives?

This a kind of truth to the best of my knowledge. If you know a 'registered knife maker' in Australia you can mail the stuff to them. Find a knife maker there and work it out to have it delivered to him if you really want it that bad.

STR
 
I might be wrong, but I think the Jason mentioned earlier who supplied the information re the HAK being classed as a category 3 weapon is an importer of knives into Australia and a knife maker.
 
hotwriter said:
But in the Tri-State Area (New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut), you can't carry a knife in your pocket with a blade longer than 1.9 inches unless you are going to or are returning from a wilderness area and can prove it with a valid hunting or fishing license. You certainly can't walk around in public with the typical Strider or Busse knife on your belt.

[...]

Be this as it may, in New Jersey, if, say, a policeman stops you and conducts a body search, and finds, for example, an Emerson Commander (4-inch blade) in your pocket, you are legally entitled to receive a free semester at Rahway State for carrying an illegal concealed weapon, same as if you were carrying a firearm--and Rahway State ain't an institution of higher learning.
When did NJ institute length restrictions on pocket knives?
 
I am definately going to have to get a HAK one of these days!! I have been drooling over them for years.
 
hotwriter said:
In the States, a knife with a blade less than two inches long is known as "California legal." California passed this law because of their epidemic of gang violence, in which knives are often implicated. Well, a lot of cities have a gang violence problem now, and so the California legal standard is becoming more widely adopted. Of course, this is a blow to those of us who simply want to carry a knife as insurance--precisely the same principle as purchasing auto insurance: you don't expect calamity to befall you, but you always know it could and if it does you had better be prepared.

I must inform you that you are mistaken in your use of the term "California legal" as it pertains to knife restrictions in our state. The term "California legal" is commonly used to describe an auto knife (switchblade), that has a blade less then two inches in length, which exempts it from 653k of the California Penal Code, thereby making it "California legal."

Aside from local ordinances and statues relating to weapons on school grounds (PC 626.10), there is no State Code specified, maximum blade length on a folding knife, as long as it is not prohibited under PC 653k.

Regards,
3G

P.S.

Fixed blades, like the HAK, are a completely different story. They are not legal to conceal in California (PC 12020), regardless of blade length. There is no "California legal" loophole as it pertains to fixed blade knives, and a HAK (Hide Away Knife) is most certainly a fixed blade knife. To legally carry a fixed blade knife, of any blade length, in California, it must be carried in a sheath, and must be openly exposed.

PC 653k: http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=12795723211+7+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
PC 12020: http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=12804223338+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
 
First of all, many thanks, 3Guardsmen, for setting me straight about the meaning of "California legal." I was glad to receive your knowledgeable information.

My new Hideaway Midnight Claw just arrived. Once I was able to communicate with Frontsight by email, which was an ordeal (see my previous post in this thread), the knife arrived in a couple of days. I ordered mine with S30V steel and paracord wrap. The cost came to just under $200. When I first saw the knife, I thought the price I had paid for it, even with S30V, was way too much. A new Strider dagger with a five-inch, S30V blade (nine inches OAL) just sold on eBay last night for $216, as a basis for comparison. I would like to see this knife priced closer to $100—with S30V.

There were some serious Kydex scuffs on the blade when I first withdrew it from its sheath. In fact, I’d say this is the most scuffed knife in my collection, which includes a half dozen medium to large Striders and several small to medium-size Busses. I was a disappointed that the handsome charcoal finish was marred out of the box. It’s a little like buying a new pair of shoes and finding a scuff on them that you had missed in the store. If I wanted this Hideaway as a collector’s item, I would have a serious aesthetic problem with the condition it came in. As a user, though, I guess it hardly matters.

The little Kydex sheath the HAK came in is good and tight. It took a few tries to yank out the knife smoothly and even more tries to get it back into the sheath properly seated. You can’t sort of get the knife into the sheath correctly. It must go in at an exact angle or it gets stuck halfway. After withdrawing/inserting the HAK several times, it became a little easier to withdraw and insert. This gives me hope that it will continue to get even easier with use.

But enough griping. For a knife with a blade that is less than 1.9 inches long, this is one heck of a weapon. A number of people have said they would not use a knife as small as a HAK for self-defense, which is why I got mine. I respectfully disagree. The knife has a pleasing weight, my index and middle fingers slip easily into the lozenge-shaped hole, they have a snug fit when I make a fist, and the blade is easily the sharpest of any knife I own, including my Busses and Striders, out of the box.

In a self-defense situation, you could definitely ruin an assailant’s weekend with this little knife. As a stabber, afraid not. But then I got the claw model, which is a slasher, not a stabber. As a slasher, this is one wicked little weapon. And because it weighs next to nothing, you could maneuver it with lightning speed. In fact, when I was taking it out of and inserting it back into its sheath, and with each attempt this became easier to do, I found myself becoming increasingly careful to avoid slashing myself. I’ve developed a healthy respect for what a little HAK is capable of doing.

Otherwise, the HAK meets my needs very well. Let’s face it, most knives with a blade under two inches are useless for self-defense. Because of the HAK’s small size, it can be worn on a key ring, which, for me, is the ideal place for it to ensure that I don’t forget it. A larger knife I would have to remember to take with me. I never have to remember to take my keys. My Striders and Busses wouldn’t serve me well for self-defense sitting in my sock drawer, their usual home, when I need help on the street. With the HAK on my key ring, at least I know I’ll always have something on my person with which to defend myself.

Like many innovative tools, the HAK is an odd little knife. It takes some getting used to—both in terms of aesthetics, taking it out of and putting back into its sheath without cutting yourself, getting your fingers through the lozenge-shaped hole, and developing skill in manipulating the blade. Be this as it may, it has the look, feel, steel, and sharpness of a quality knife. I still think the HAK is seriously overpriced. But, heck, so is my auto insurance. At the end of the day, I’m still glad I have insurance, regardless of the cost.
 
Glad to be of assistance, hotwriter. Enjoy your new HAK, and use it in good health.

Regards,
3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
To legally carry a fixed blade knife, of any blade length, in California, it must be carried in a sheath, and must be openly exposed.

Not exactly. I suggest you read In re Luke W. (2001) 88 Cal.App.4th 650. In this case, the Appeals Court held that a Swiss Card type multi-tool, which included a fixed blade knife with an overall length of approximately three and one-eighth inches and two and one-fourth inches of blade, was not a statutorily prohibited dirk or dagger within the meaning of § 12020.

In the words of the Court: "Although they may not have folding blades, small knives obviously designed to be carried in a pocket in a closed state, and which cannot be used until there have been several intervening manipulations, comport with the implied legislative intent that such knives do not fall within the definition of proscribed dirks or daggers but are a type of pocketknife excepted from the statutory proscription."

While it might be difficult to argue that a HAK meets the above description, it is equally true that your all inclusive statement is not correct.
 
It's killing me I ordered mine and paid for it on the 14th of this month and it took a few days to get to the shipped to you sign I think it got to that one the 17th of this month. I just can't wait to get it I hope it's at my home when I get back from work.

Is there a tracking number you can get when your knife gets sent to you? If so I'd like to get mine!
 
blackgrub0331 said:
Is there a tracking number you can get when your knife gets sent to you? If so I'd like to get mine!

No, but they're shipped USPS 1st class from Florida, so you should be able to ball park when it'll arrive.
 
dsvirsky said:
No, but they're shipped USPS 1st class from Florida, so you should be able to ball park when it'll arrive.

Thanks for the info! That means it should come about today or Wednesday
 
For the sake of accuracy (and honesty), I need to correct my previous post in which I complained that my HAK claw came seriously scuffed from its Kydex sheath. I gave it a good rubbing with Miracle Cloth, which is impregnated with chemicals to clean knives (a knife dealer turned me on to it), and presto--the scuffs (or whatever they were) vanished, and the blade doesn't have a blemish on it. Sorry, Frontsight, for my previous gripe, which turned out to be unfounded.

But I do have a gripe that remains serious: My sheath is difficult to use. I have no problem withdrawing the HAK, although it does take a good yank, but getting it back into the sheath is an ordeal. Guess I've tried it several dozen times so far and did it perfectly maybe six or seven times. If it doesn't go in perfectly, I must completely withdraw the knife and start over again. Sometimes it takes me three or four times to seat the knife properly in the sheath.

It shouldn't take that much effort. And it's dangerous. Because the HAK is so sharp and the sheath is so small, if you aren't paying full attention when you try to re-sheath the knife, you could easily give yourself a nasty cut. With a larger, grippier sheath, this wouldn't be a problem. I have about a dozen larger knives with Kydex sheaths, and all are effortless to re-sheath. The HAK ought to be as well, especially given its high price. I may have to contact Okuden (www.okuden.com) for a really good Kydex sheath. I've never met anyone who makes a Kydex sheath as good as Okuden's. He is a master. They are perfect.

And now a note to Blackgrub: While it's possible that Frontsight has been tardy in sending you your knife even thought her website says it has been sent, the state of Florida is notoriously slow in delivering or routing mail. Even if it's sent first class. When I buy something (not just knives) from a Florida seller, I always allow an extra week to 10 days for it to arrive. I live in New Jersey, and I get stuff from California--or even Europe--faster than I get it from Florida. Canada can take forever, too.
 
Thanks to 3G for the clarification on Ca. law- I had always thought it was ok if the blade was under three inches.

This puts me in a bit of a spot- I'm 51 and have a bit of a belly so I wear my shirts not tucked in. This makes NOT concealing a knife, especially something like a HAK kind of tough. I like horizontal belt carry a la Dozier's small knives as well.

I know it all depends on the individual officer, but I'd like your opinion- I dress decently (clean Levis & sport or work shirts) and drive decent cars. Except for speeding, I do nothing that I think would draw LE attention.

Do I need to either stop carrying (or find a totally legal way to carry) or will my carrying A: probably continue to go unnoticed, B: get let go with a warning, or C: Get me taken to jail?

In my younger wilder days, I was wearing a sheath knife on a motorcycle and got pulled over and taken in for a "concealed weapon"- the punchline is the cop said he pulled me over because he saw the knife! I remember at the time looking up the law to defend myself, and it talked about intent to commit a crime, or having used the weapon in a crime- has that changed?

I thought my quoting that statute was what got me off, but it may just have been the cop's idiocy- I was 2 blocks from home and headed in that direction.
 
Hi MVF. You were nearly charged with carrying a concealed weapon and got off. Which goes to show that the law, and the police, are highly subjective. It all depends on the individual and the circumstance. I think many police officers would let you off if you had no prior felonies if for no other reason than to save themselves the paperwork. No doubt some would confiscate your expensive knife for their personal collections. However, if you used the knife to defend yourself and cut your assailant, that might well be another story.

Most knife laws seem to be written and enacted in response to gang violence. If you aren't a member of a violent gang, that should be a point in your favor. If you're polite to a policeman, and apologetic, and plead ignorance, I'd wager that many cops would let you go. The fact that you are mature adult may get you some slack as well. Policemen (and women) are people, too. The way the knife laws are written in many states, you almost can't carry a knife without violating one statute or another.

But this as it may, there are no guarantees. I'd bet there are relatively few people who carry knives in their pockets regardless of their size who have the faintest idea of what the knife laws are in their state, let alone in neighboring states that they may visit. I think your best assurance that the police will treat you with kid gloves if you get caught and the circumstance doesn't involve violence is to spring for a $50 or $100 donation to your local Patrolmen's Benevolent Association. It isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, but that decal in your front windshield can be worth many times its annual cost--and it's for a good cause to boot.
 
i would look into packing something legal myself, too many good options to get into trouble over a HAK imho, while MAYBE a contribution(& sticker) to a troopers association/benevelonts society/etc might get ya a little slack/etc when it comes to a speeding ticket (and i seriously doubt that it certainly wont in TX) imho it will have little/no effect when it comes to a weapons violation.
 
I'm a journalist. I often cover entrepreneurs for national business magazines (when I'm not too busy writing about knives, haha). Small businesspeople who suddenly find themselves with a hot product on their hands and no way to handle all their inquiries and orders are as common as sand on a beach. Quite often success hinges on figuring out how to deal with the sudden avalanche of business before all those potential customers become permanently alienated. My sense is that Frontsight is at that point. The obvious solution--add staff--only works if you're making a decent profit.

So far, Frontsight indicates that she isn't. She needs to sit down with a good accountant who can run her numbers, help her do some forecasting, and grow her business. Entrepreneurs who fail to do this in a timely way tend to go belly up. That's especially true because the knife business is a copycat business. Sooner or later a larger outfit--CRKT, Spyderco, Cold Steel, or even Emerson--will come out with their own version of the Hideaway. All these folks are easy to deal with, and that's where the business will go.

Even though I initiated a PayPal dispute with Frontsight, I never believed she was out to rip me off. I suspected she was just in over her head in terms of orders and inquiries, as turned out to be the case. Custom knives are a tough racket. There isn't a ton of money in it. Be this as it may, Strider, Busse, Reeves, Mad Dog, and many others have figured out how to answer inquries, fulfill orders, and offer good customer service without having people complaining to their credit card companies. In fact, Strider collaborates with Frontsight on a Hideaway knife. Frontsight ought to ask Mick how he does it.

So that's the situation at present. If you must own a Hideaway--and I did--the best way to get what you want is to think long and hard about which knife and which options you want before you place an order (which I didn't), and be sure to check which knives may be already available for sale in your size if you're in a hurry. If you need to ask a question or change an order, your email is going to get stuck amid hundreds of others, and when it will be answered--if ever--is anyone's guess. Hope that changes soon.

Meanwhile, though, once I finally heard from Frontsight, and got my order changed to what I wanted, my knife was on its way to me that very next day. I still haven't received it yet but will post a review when it arrives.


wow, well put.
I'm currently experiencing simmilar frustration and dissapointment with Frontsight over their lack of customer service and delays in delivering a product that is advertised as "available now".
While I believe the product is of real quality and true utility value anytime I spend $100+ on any product I expect a little customer service and communication to accompany.
Would you believe I registered for the forum to simply do a little research on Hideaway and seek answers to my questions since Frontsight is too busy to respond to my e-mails.
 
Greetings All,

I recently ordered a HAK --- nothing fancy, a 440c Utility model. My experience with Frontsight's customer service has been very positive. A few days after I ordered my knife on 12/28/06, I had some additional questions. I e-mailed the contact on the HAK homepage, and received a very informative reply later that evening. Frontsight answered my questions, and did so promptly and politely. I'm looking forward to receiving my HAK next week. :)

Sharp
 
Wow- you're lucky! I ordered mine so long ago I'm not even going to guess when it was. I sent 2 emails with no response, and after reading here what the problem was decided to just wait and see. Finally got an email asking for payment 3 days ago, so now we'll see how long it takes to get here.

I've been waiting almost as long for a Dozier. It's a little frustrating, but as long as I'm not charged until the product is ready, I just accept it as the way it is. Busses also run to long delays, and we haven't even started talking about Randalls!
 
I recieved my UHAK is three days from the point of payment. The ordering process was a little obtuse, but he performance is grand. I have read on Badlandsforums where some exotic, meaning most, grinds and steels take time to fit into the custom makers schedule. Frontsight is not doing this herself, contributing knifemakers do the work, so there is shipping, scheduling, and the usual backlog of high demand standard items for the maker to find time to gettin round to it. Titanium claws seem to really push the envelope into months.

Yes, my Kydex sheath got me cut, too. It is a precision effort. Leather sheaths are available which would solve the problem, but the real issue is we are using a fixed blade knife as an EDC like a folder and probably demanding the same convenience is putting it back into "storage." An apples and oranges comparison when put up against a one-hand linerlock with pocket clip.

Love my HAK - just trying to solve the carry and sheathing issue so I can use it just like all my others. Maybe it really is a matter of just carry for self defense, but I don't want that. It's just too handy.
 
Greetings All,

My Utility HAK showed up yesterday, and I am very pleased! It's shaving sharp, nicely finished, and I have no problems drawing it or sheathing it. I chose one that would fit with or without paracord wrapping. After some vigorous handling, I decided to go with the wrap. It is more comfortable and stable. Frontsight includes several different colors of pre-cored paracord. I used the grey, which matches the knife well.

I ordered my knife on 12/28/06, and received it on 1/8/07. Given that there were TWO federal holidays in between, (New Year's Day and Gerald Ford mourning day), this was excellent turnaround time. I'm a happy customer, and I look forward to working with FS again.

Sharp
 
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