High Carbon is King

Joined
May 2, 2002
Messages
16
I have been away from these forums for about a year. I took a look at my favorite manufacturer's list of offerings now that I once again have lost yet another Old Timer, and find I need to make yet another plea for myself and probably thousands of other real sportsmen, to the Schrade management.

We are still waiting for a much needed revision of the carbon steel (OT) lineup. I personally am looking for large,one and two bladed patterns - Jacks, barlows and such. We use them hard and usually bust them from abuse - which is only a compliment because they seem to be invincible under normal use, or we loose them.

And I am tired of scrounging flea markets and hate auctions. But you would gasp at what I spend annually to keep myself in Old Timers for the garage, car, house, and pocket. I would love to remain a one-brand man, but it's getting harder and harder to find them in good condition. So you are amply forewarned, the first mass-produced carbon steel model of the type I've described (and is long overdue) is going in my pocket. And I'll probably take another couple at the same time. That will also mark the day that yet another Schrade customer switches manufacturers.

Schrade is turning their backs on a truckload of revenue from real outdoorsmen, to follow the armchair sportsman and special ops wanna-be crowd who can't seem to get enough of tanto, liner-whatever, G-10 and carbon thingamajig trash.

Sorry. Just had to vent at where the knife industry is going and what their long range goals must be.
 
Well said, and I must agree. However unfortunate it may be the fact is ( at least as I see it ), that it is very possible the time may come when carbon steel is completely eased out of the line. Do I agree with it NOOO. So what then is the reason that it is happening? Perhapes the devotion to carbon that you, and to a large extent myself feel towards keeping knives of this material on the market is not shared by as many people as we would think. After all Shrade is in business to make money I do not know how many or how often this opinion has been made known to Schrade. I do know that if they had more letters and emails like yours it would certainly not hurt the cause and might show a void in the market that should be filled and would be profitable as well.

I also feel that the reasons carbon is being pulled from the lineup is also complicated by other factors as well. First of all there are merchandising problems, with stainless you pop the item in a box and send it on its way shelf life is almost limit less production can be as large a run as desired and then gone back to when needed. Not so carbon every so often carbon must be checked and if needed cleaned or oiled. Sometimes packaging must be changes due to oil or lube leaking through boxes. All these factors and who knows what else cost money. Right now perhapes more than ever in this countrys cutlery history whatever is possible must be done to increase effiency or like just about everything else thes items will be imported (usually from some damn country that within the last 70 or 80 years american soldiers have died in ).

Part of the problem as you correctly pointed out are the changes in the consumers and how there preferences have changed. It used to be that a lot of people when they bought a new carbon steel pocket knife would stick it in an apple over night this gave the blade a dull rather than shiny patina but actually helped protect the knife from developing real rust. It had no effect on sharpness ( and being carbon sharpened up quickly anyway ). Just a little bit of oil every so often and you had a knife that lasted until you were sick of it or lost it. The fact was that those knives were bought, carried, and used as tools.

Todays consumer wants a knife that shines is pretty and indestrucible and if they find it is a little tougher to sharpen than carbon, then they just take it to just about any hardware shop pay 2 dollars and gets it sharpened professionally. Most of these are not carried for years but rather until another style strikes there fancy at which point it is put in a drawer or in a display. I can certainly understand this line of reason I love american knives especially Schrade and have hundreds I do not believe that there is anything wrong in being addicted ( as I am ) and displaying ( as I do) However I can certainly understand the frustration felt to someone who prefers carbon and is buying a knife as a long time user and ( truthfully as funny as it sounds daily companion ). During the Hunting season I sometimes butcher several whitetails a day, all I use is Schrade carbon. That is my preference It does not mean that there is anything wrong with my stainless versions it is just that I am an old dog and like the feel of a knife that I have used for 30 or 40 years.

I guess all we can do is let Schrade know our opinions and hope for the best. Hopefully if the problem is only due to storage and maintenence some modern techniques and alternatives came be found. However if the reason is lack of marketability ( just not enough interest) then I guess flea markets and ebay are our only recourse. At least Schrade has 2 emails urging them to keep carbon in the line it would be nice to know how some other folks feel. Good Hunting LT
 
Am I reading that Schrade is dropping carbon steel from production?

That there won't be any more Old Timers with good ole 1095?

Somebody get a rope.:mad:
 
I cannot speak for Schrade however having been a peace officer for 26 years and a poker player for 50 I have come to believe that if it quacks, waddles while walking on web feet, has a bill and looks like a duck the chances are it is. One by one it seems carbon is being replaced. This and the reasons I previously posted lead me to feel the way I do. Perhapes I am wrong I hope so. All I am saying is that at least Schrade should be advised that some folks still prefer carbon. The final decision and direction is theirs to make. Good Hunting LT
 
While it's true that carbon steel knives are getting harder to find, there are still a number of good makers out there. However, Colonial, I think you'll find it easier to find a quality carbon steel knife if you'll move to a more common pattern such as a stockman or trapper or even canoe. Fact is, hardly anyone is making carbon Barlows and two-blade jacks anymore - they just don't sell as well. You can still find good carbon pocketknives, though. For instance, take a look at Queen, Camillus, Case, and Moore Maker to name a few.
 
There is a lot of carbon out there and they are fine. I for one agree with colonial that it is just a shame when a long time customer has to switch from a company and product that they know, like and trust. It takes a while to build up that kind of loyalty. In Schrades case 100 years.

There are some good imported knives out there as well as the companies you mentioned. No doubt any of these would fill the bill. I for one would prefer not to use them either. Again not casting any aspersions on any of them it is just a matter of personal preference. The real question is why should we have to.

In my case, I have known several generations of the people who built these knives. I still butcher whitetails for the grandsons of guys I used to hunt with who made these knives. My price for doing it is still the same a hindquarter if you can spare it,( with 5 kids in those days, meat and firewood were always welcomed, ) usually these guys would throw in a Schrade knife also. ( You can collect a lot of knives that way in 45 or 50 years) Some of the older guys still come down during the season to have a beer, shoot the bull and play a little cards. Now a days since the kids are grown I don't even take the hind quarter most of the time.

The thing is that these guys are old time craftsmen with gnarled hands who are not ashamed to wear a hat with an american flag on it. These people took pride in there work, country and integrity. Your right, it makes no sense to not just go out and buy from another company. Some damn good ones at that. It is just that as our ability to make our own decisions seems to be coming to an end in this country. Smoking, seat belts, helmet laws and whatever comes next I will choose to carry a Schrade knife, winchester rifle, and colt pistol if not for what they presently are, but rather what they were and represent to our history. Chances are the day may come when those rights are gone as well on that day I will give up my guns and knives one piece of lead at a time.

That being said and having taken my share of time on the soap box even at the risk of boring every one who might read this, I at least feel better. I now am going to get in my old ford pickup and load up 100 lbs of fresh venison italian sausage and bring it to my rod and gun club all of which was dutifully skinned and righteously butchered with genuine Schrade carbon steel knives.

A friend of mine the other day asked me If I knew what the word vegetarian means in the language of the american indians. I replied no I didn't. His answer was BAD HUNTER. LT
 
lt632ret: I really enjoyed your post. Thanks.

One thing, though, guys ... let's not all write up obituaries for Schrade's carbon steel Old Timers just yet. I mean, the original poster was just lamenting that they're not available in the pattern/s he prefers. However, I don't at all take this to mean they're going to stop making carbon steel knives. Why would they? After all, according to their own web site, the 34OT Middleman stockman is "America's # 1 selling pocket knife."

Just to be safe, though, it probably wouldn't hurt to write the good folks a Schrade a note and let 'em know how you feel.

Imperial Schrade Corp
7 Schrade Court
Ellenville, NY 12428

Or: info@schradeknives.com
 
If we look at the US manufacturers that actually make all of the traditional pocketknives (I never will get used to the term "slipjoint"), by my count it has come down to the following seven (7):

Imperial/Schrade
Camillus
Case
Queen
Utica (Kutmaster)
Buck
Bear MGC

Colonial knife co is gone, KABAR and Western are just brand names.

Buck and Bear have always only used stainless steel exclusively. Queen was a pioneer in the use of stainless steel, and they will make excellent carbon steel knives, but only as contract knives not part of their "standard" product line.

Last I checked the Camillus website, I could not find any carbon steel pocket knives as part of their "standard" product line. They all appear to be SS. I know that Camillus does do limited runs in 1095 of some slipjoint patterns.

Utica (again via their site) has gone to all stainless steel in their pocket knife line.

That leaves Schrade and Case. Sadly, the Schrade Old Timer line seems to shrink every few years.

Case, to their credit, has actually been expanding their line of carbon steel knives, specifically the yellow handled series. Schrade carbon steel is much better, IMHO.

The German manufacturers seem to offer more - at least Boker, Bulldog, Buck Creek, and maybe Kissing Krane offer CS slipjoints.

Maybe Schrade management can shed some light on this - why the decline in the carbon steel OT's?
 
I read another post which answered this question and it seemed to make sense (though I doubt you will get agreement from anyone employed by a knife manufacturer that is supposed to be answering the call of real sportsmen FIRST).
A good percentage of knives have to be written off because they get tarnished by handling while in the display cases. This aparently causes enough grumblings and threats by large accounts that the manufacturer is listening to them. I for one would not mind an extra dollar tacked on to my knife and the manufacturer can offer to replace the rusted knives for free (actually at my cost).
I have had to get my big jack, barlow, and single blades for so long from E-bay and flea markets that at this point, from disgust at who Schrade is listening to (and not listening to), instead of passing along the tradition to my son of opening up a box with a new Old Timer, I am showing him how to find one at a flea market and telling him of the days when manufacturers used to BE headed by sportsmen and answered their requests. Now they answer who has the largest account with them (as well as the population of Ranger-wanna-be's who can't seem to live without the latest thumb-flipping special-ops titanium crap).
We want medium and large carbon steel working knives because we NEED them. What isn't comming through?
Oh well. Who did you say sells those CS Bulldogs? What's that? They're not a United Stated company? I have a very appropriate e-mail about why they're no jobs in this country. But that's another soap box. See ya Schlade,shade,snade - whatever.
 
I just bought two Schrade OTs on eBay. Both are Hi-Carbon steel.

I do some metalworking on a Taig Microlathe and so buy metal stock. Hi-Carbon steel is very difficult to find. This may be the reason Schrade and others are offering fewer HC blades. Just a guess on my part though.
 
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