High End Flashlights vs Retail Store Flashlights

Originally posted by knifenut1013
I don't think they would have such a good rep with the military if they were not up to the task.
Click to expand...

The fact that something is widely used by the military doesn't say much about it. SureFire lights are readily widely available in military retail outlets, and are constantly hyped in military-oriented publications, so soldiers buy them.

The same is true of Cold Steel, Gerber, and CRKT products, but I doubt you'd find many people on these forums claiming that any of these represent the pinnacle of tactical cutlery.

I have a couple of Surefires, and they've worked fine, but I'd take a Fenix or a NiteCore over a SF any day (smaller, cheaper, more choices in battery types.) That being said, the light that saw the most use during my year in Afghanistan was a Ray-O-Vac headlamp I picked up at Wal-mart for about $15.00.:p
 
CubistHamster said:
The fact that something is widely used by the military doesn't say much about it. SureFire lights are readily widely available in military retail outlets, and are constantly hyped in military-oriented publications, so soldiers buy them.
Click to expand...

Probably because they're good lights? No, that'd be too easy. It's a fluke. :rolleyes:

CubistHamster said:
The same is true of Cold Steel, Gerber, and CRKT products, but I doubt you'd find many people on these forums claiming that any of these represent the pinnacle of tactical cutlery.
Click to expand...

Gerber? CRKT? Cold Steel? You must be joking right? These are far from the "pinnacle of tactical cutlery" and I am shocked you feel justified throwing them in with Surefire. :thumbdn:
 
Josh K said:
Yeah, this is intelligent.

I'm starting to feel a CS test is in order. Purchase a 6PL from Surefire ($90) and a comparable (price wise) model from Fenix. Send them to me, and I'll flatten them in a 30 ton shop press. After you receive them back, send each in for warranty service. Surefire will send you a brand new light, I'm not sure what Fenix will do.
Click to expand...

Oh, so that wouldn't fall under the "damage resulting from abuse [or] neglect" mentioned in Surefire's warranty? I would love to see any company in any industry that would not consider that damage from abuse, outside of products made to go in 30 ton presses.

I could rant like a fanboy, but the bottom line is you're comparing a Strider/Sebenza to a Boker Trance.
Click to expand...

Dude, you ARE ranting like a fanboy. Surefire makes nice lights, but so does Fenix and a lot of other brands.

The lights comparable to most Surefire models would be the Fenix TA/TK series, and they compare very favorably. If you are concerned about their ability to handle abuse, look at the many, many abuse videos on youtube and threads on CPF. Fenix isn't even a high end brand in the flashlight world. I mean, they are far nicer than most, but what about the stuff that Jetbeam puts out? How's that selector ring coming for Surefire (I'm sorry, that was a low blow :) )?

Bottom line is that you will get a nice light if you go for Surefire or Fenix, and you will be much happier than you would be with a retail store flashlight. Everyone can stop with the fanboyism, because no one is ever going to change their minds. This is almost as bad as a political argument. :D
 
storl said:
Oh, so that wouldn't fall under the "damage resulting from abuse [or] neglect" mentioned in Surefire's warranty? I would love to see any company in any industry that would not consider that damage from abuse, outside of products made to go in 30 ton presses.
Click to expand...

Considering they have that neat little paragraph on the top of the page. http://www.surefire.com/guarantee

Also, RAT seems to be doing fine with their warranty.

storl said:
Dude, you ARE ranting like a fanboy. Surefire makes nice lights, but so does Fenix and a lot of other brands.

The lights comparable to most Surefire models would be the Fenix TA/TK series, and they compare very favorably. If you are concerned about their ability to handle abuse, look at the many, many abuse videos on youtube and threads on CPF. Fenix isn't even a high end brand in the flashlight world. I mean, they are far nicer than most, but what about the stuff that Jetbeam puts out? How's that selector ring coming for Surefire (I'm sorry, that was a low blow :) )?

Bottom line is that you will get a nice light if you go for Surefire or Fenix, and you will be much happier than you would be with a retail store flashlight. Everyone can stop with the fanboyism, because no one is ever going to change their minds. This is almost as bad as a political argument. :D
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean by that. :confused:

I'm not concerned by that ability to handle abuse, otherwise I'd send it to Noss. I was pointing out a fundamental difference in company philosophy.
 
Surefire is liked by the military because they are battel proven and go through years of testing with a company called DARPA so they can work out the "bugs" before putting them on the shelf. Sure jetbeam, fenix, nitecore and a few others are very good lights but have no where near the amount of R&D into their product. Look up all the problems with the various lights and then look up surefire problems, there will be problems with the surefire's but nothing like you will find with the others. My mom has a nitecore, my brother has a fenix and I have two fenix lights. They all work but they all have problems that relate to the design or the circuit, so it ends up being something that cant be fixed by swapping for a new light.

We all want the best gear from guns to knives to flashlights and what does "best" mean, reliability. When a peice of gear fails you look for a better peice and when it comes to flashlights surefire is the light at the end of the tunnel.
 
LLUMINATION TOOLS WARRANTY
SureFire, LLC warrants our illumination tool products to be free from defect in workmanship and materials, including any LEDs housed within, for the lifetime of the original owner. We will repair, replace, or refund your original purchase price of this product, at our discretion, if it is determined by us to be defective. Electronics, chargers, and rechargeable batteries are covered for a period of two years with proof of purchase. Normal wear and tear — including lamps burning out, batteries draining, and switches wearing out — is not covered, nor is damage resulting from abuse, neglect, battery leakage, use of other than SureFire-brand batteries or accessories, or altering this product from its original state. SureFire offers a 10-year limited warranty in any country or under any jurisdiction where specific restrictions exist on limited lifetime warranties.
Click to expand...

Cool.
 
Josh,

I'm not bashing SureFire. I own 3 SureFire lights, and though I think they're somewhat overpriced, I can't fault their performance.

The point I was trying to make is this:

The fact that a piece of equipment is widely used by the military doesn't necessarily mean that it is a high quality piece of equipment.

My experience with other people in my unit has been that they don't do much research, and usually buy what is readily available.

Last time I was in a military clothing and sales store, (last week) the only decent flashlights they had were SureFires, just like the only (halfway) decent knives they had were Cold Steel, Gerber, and CRKT.

As I said, I have no issues with the quality of SureFire products. I just think that SureFire's dominance in the military/LE market is more due to the underexposure of competing products than SureFire products being dramatically superior to their competition.
 
Fenix offers very good bang for the buck.

Surefire offers proven reliability and well-made products manufactured in the US.


It just doesn't make sense to me, at the current time, to spend $230.00 on a Surefire's 123A cell light that has comparable specs to a Fenix light that costs about $50.00. This isn't because I don't like Surefire, it's just where my buying interests are right now. If I wanted one of the finer single-cell 123A lights made, I'm sure I'd be very happy with the T1A Titan.

Even so, if you take a look at Candlepower forums, and look around at some of the custom flashlights being produced, there are much higher-end production flashlights than Surefire out there.

I think this thread should center more around what options are out there, and that some surprising deals can be had from many different flashlight manufacturers if you do a little research. For instance, that neat little single AAA light from CountyComm:

aaa9large.jpg
:D
 
Last edited:
Josh K said:
Yeah, this is intelligent.

I'm starting to feel a CS test is in order. Purchase a 6PL from Surefire ($90) and a comparable (price wise) model from Fenix. Send them to me, and I'll flatten them in a 30 ton shop press. After you receive them back, send each in for warranty service. Surefire will send you a brand new light, I'm not sure what Fenix will do.

I could rant like a fanboy, but the bottom line is you're comparing a Strider/Sebenza to a Boker Trance.
Click to expand...

"Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time"
 
Josh K said:
Considering they have that neat little paragraph on the top of the page. http://www.surefire.com/guarantee
Click to expand...

You are completely ignoring the paragraph that I quoted.

I don't understand what you mean by that. :confused:
Click to expand...

They have been trying to come out with a light with a selector ring for quite a while now with no success, something the Asian guys figured out a long time ago.

Saying that Surefire has has fewer problems than Fenix or other brands is grossly oversimplificating. Comparing a 6PL to a comparable Fenix light (TK11) is like comparing a stick to a gun. Of course the gun is not going to be as reliable if you use it a million times in a row, because it is a much more complicated piece of technology. Now, when you get to Surefire's more complicated lights, then they have plenty of documented issues. The titanium Titan had major issues and lots of complaints when it was first released. It was $500 and, par for the course, delayed several times.

As I have mentioned, I like Surefire. They make quality products and were the innovators for a long time. There are just a lot of other lights out there now that are as good or better options for certain people, even ignoring price. What if, heaven forbid, someone doesn't want to use lithium batteries? <gasp>

I think this thread will guarantee that I will never become a Surefire dealer. I need to post under a ghost name. :D

Again, OP, buy a nice light, be it a Fenix, Surefire, or whatever, and you will be happier than if you just bought a retail store light. Heck, buy from me and I'll take it back and give a full refund if you don't like it.
 
I've owned a number of SF's but currently only have 2. The only problem I've had was a couple of tail caps that went defective. Called them up and had two new ones in less than a week, no questions asked...

I have a little Ray-o-vac l.e.d sportsman 2 AA IIRC. It has been used hard in all kinds of weather for about a year and a half, and still works great.
It's not as bright as my SF's, but it actually works great for up close work.
Wally Mart 9 dollars:D and battery life is great.

I'm sure some of the other manufacturers make good lights, but I have no reason to change. The other thing that kept me from trying some of the other manufacturers is that I absolutely hate lights that have 3-5 positions and strobes. I want a light that turns on and turns off, simple
 
LOL! This has become a fun thread.

One thing is for sure you guys take your lights seriously!

Mines due in on the 21st. Then I will become an official
Maratac FanBoy :D
 
storl said:
I think this thread will guarantee that I will never become a Surefire dealer. I need to post under a ghost name. :D

Again, OP, buy a nice light, be it a Fenix, Surefire, or whatever, and you will be happier than if you just bought a retail store light. Heck, buy from me and I'll take it back and give a full refund if you don't like it.
Click to expand...

Taking the light back if the person doesn't like it is really nice of you.

BTW if you did become a Surefire Dealer I'd consider buying one. Right now I'm trying to deside which iTP, Fenix or other light to buy from you and I'll make a new thread for that.. :)

Heber
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top