High end knives need to work before leaving the shop

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knife dragon

Joined
Sep 16, 2013
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281
Hi folks,
well, I wanted to know if you too feel a high end/fairly expensive knife should be Checked for function before it is placed for sale by the maker.

I had such a knife & the seller told me it came from the maker in the condition i received it.

My knife is a flipper ! After paying attention to many folks deploying them; i said i'm gonna go after at least one high end flipper. my knife has a thumb stud too, it's deployment is flawless i must say! :thumbup:

I also saw a blade show report from a BF/JD member that said on the table of a well known knife maker he had 2/3 flippers that didn't flip. i was headed his way for one of his flippers next. Now i'm have to pause for my cause, and my wallet.

i was offered by the seller a refund with no issues, but i'd still have to eat western union fees...

i want the freaking knife; but it has to go back to the maker for him to do what should have been done before he sent the knife away imho.

btw he is a very well known maker, that is highly respected; so was the maker at blade who is arguably the top flipper maker today.

So, I'm more then a little upset over this especially sense these knives are expensive & i chose the makers based on a legit reputation. OK i'm looking forward to what you have to say. Yet, please don't make weak excuses for anyone.

to me it's a simple matter of quality control that isn't being met. iA customer should never have to send back a knife because the maker didn't make sure the knife functioned as designed prior to release:mad:

NOTE: i didn't mention names because it's the idea/principle that matters for all knife makers imho; also because i still respect these guys.
 
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A knife, like any other product, should do what is designed and advertised to do. Yes, a knife like you described should "flip" open easily and if it does not, it should, not have been shipped.
Sounds like some QC issues and I also think you should be refunded your fees incurred by their failure to deliver the described product.
The custom, handmade knife makers should realize that their products really are purely luxury items at nobody really "needs". It's like a hot tub. Does anyone really "need" a hot tub? It is a purely luxury item, so when you buy one, the seller better give you great service, as nobody really needs their product.
I know this opinion may make people upset, but it is just my opinion.
We choose to buy high end knives(me too!) and I'll never ask a maker to treat me exorbitantly special, but basic customer service and QC should always be a big part of the game.
 
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I have seen this with popular makers on more than one ocassion.

I recently had an experience with a popular maker that is not even close to mastering the framelock...his knives change hands often on the forums...in my years of collecting he is the biggest POS ever.

Moral of the story....don't believe all the internet hype.
 
This is one of the most hard to follow posts I have read in quite sometime. If its that bad and you really want it send it back to be fixed. Its not an unreasonable expectation for it to be perfect. Most owners of custom knives are proficient at minor repairs and making them flip appropriately.
 
Shift said:
This is one of the most hard to follow posts I have read in quite sometime. If its that bad and you really want it send it back to be fixed. Its not an unreasonable expectation for it to be perfect. Most owners of custom knives are proficient at minor repairs and making them flip appropriately.
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I went back over the post to see how tough it was to read. i added an n, so the word on would be known, 2 commas maybe, and i made a paragraph to be more clear.. Still bro Shift, I think u must speed read when your stoned & got lost lol. :D pump the brakes brother Shift. did you noticed how i tried to tie in my response to your handle?

Most owners who have a lot of experience with them you mean. which doesn't speak to new owners with no experience at all.
i already said it's going back. the post/thread was to basically see if most folks felt the same way i do. This thread was also a way to make Dissenting appeal to those who still think in a practical manner.

also you bring up a point about QC with your misplaced comment. ni owner should have to do anything to a knew knife when QC is proper. that's the very essence of this thread really. so thx. Shift you made sure you added the excuse commentary that is so annoying.

If i didn't do my QC on my jobs that required it i'd would have gotten fired. instead i usually up the QC on my own.:thumbup:
 
2 shot said:
So you bought it 2nd hand, not from the maker?
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correct, it went from the maker to the seller, to me. Still imho a seller should also make sure a knife they are selling works as designed in the case of high priced knives/flippers .
 
knife dragon said:
correct, it went from the maker to the seller, to me. Still imho a seller should also make sure a knife they are selling works as designed in the case of high priced knives/flippers .
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The condition should always be stated accurately but especially on higher end items.

Okay, so the seller told you that it was in the condition that he received it from the maker. Did the seller go into specifics by saying that it didn't flip properly or did they leave the description vague?

Also, was it new or used? Are you positive that it left the maker that way? From what you said, it sounds like all this info came from the seller. (who could have played with it and accidentally done something before selling to you. Not saying this is what happened but pure speculation)


Ps. I was stone cold sober when I read the OP and it is not exactly a clear organization of thoughts.
 
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benchwarmer380 said:
The condition should always be stated accurately but especially on higher end items.

Okay, so the seller told you that it was in the condition that he received it from the maker. Did the seller go into specifics by saying that it didn't flip properly or did they leave the description vague?

Also, was it new or used? Are you positive that it left the maker that way? From what you said, it sounds like all this info came from the seller. (who could have played with it and accidentally done something before selling to you. Not saying this is what happened but pure speculation)


Ps. I was stone cold sober when I read the OP and it is not exactly a clear organization of thoughts.
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OPs post is perfectly clear.

He purchased a higher end flipper made by a well known maker and it doesn't function properly.

The OP is of the opinion that custom knife makers should be sure their knives are functioning perfectly before they leave the shop and I agree with the OP 100%.

I been playing this game for many years with many customs and have had this happen several times.

I had a couple knives once from one of the most respected makers of flippers and they had locks that stuck bad, i sent them back to the maker...he charged me a hundred bucks and when i got them back they still stuck.

I have said it many times that very few have mastered the framelock/linerlock.

I could name many...the good guys right the wrongs.
 
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I see makers sell knives that stick and say the knife needs to be "broken in".... What a load of crap that is...pencil lead, sharpie....IMO, excuses for poor craftsmanship obviously no pride in their work.
 
When I'm buying a production knife, say 50 to 100 dollars, and there is some QC issue, large or small, i get irritated but not surprised. Buying an expensive custom from a well established maker I have a different set of standards. Yes, they will be happy to make it right, just send the knife in for a fix. Well I just spent 500, 800, 1000 for a knife and I need to send it right back to the maker so he can fix a knife that should never have been sold that way. This is inexcusable to me. And it really takes away a lot of the joy of buying your new grail. So, If I am spending that kind of money, I can and should expect the knife to right. Right?
 
I understood it fine but it wasn't a clear read. That is here nor there.

I agree as well that a custom knife should leave the shop in good working order. I'm not questioning that aspect at all.

I'm questioning if the seller made note of these issues before the sale was made. If they were, great on the seller for offering a refund even though the OP knew about the problems. If they were not disclosed, how can one blame the maker after it passed on to someone else's hands that deceived a seller?

If the OP bought this direct from the maker then these problems would lie 100% with the maker. Without knowledge of the seller or their listing then this is not exactly cut and dry.
 
bigmark408 said:
OPs post is perfectly clear.

He purchased a higher end flipper made by a well known maker and it doesn't function properly.
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Flipper's require a bit of technique to employ correctly,

I suspect the problem is more operator error then a QC problem.


I know that when I first started using flippers there was a bit of a learning curve.


Any "Well Known" maker will be anxious to see a knife of his making that does not function probably, and would be happy to rectify any problem that might exist.


Just one knife users insight.




Big Mike
 
Big Mike said:
Flipper's require a bit of technique to employ correctly,

I suspect the problem is more operator error then a QC problem.


I know that when I first started using flippers there was a bit of a learning curve.


Any "Well Known" maker will be anxious to see a knife of his making that does not function probably, and would be happy to rectify any problem that might exist.


Just one knife users insight.




Big Mike
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I understand some have issues, personally i have never had a problem operating any knife.

Most common issues are lockbar related.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
I understood it fine but it wasn't a clear read. That is here nor there.

I agree as well that a custom knife should leave the shop in good working order. I'm not questioning that aspect at all.

I'm questioning if the seller made note of these issues before the sale was made. If they were, great on the seller for offering a refund even though the OP knew about the problems. If they were not disclosed, how can one blame the maker after it passed on to someone else's hands that deceived a seller?

If the OP bought this direct from the maker then these problems would lie 100% with the maker. Without knowledge of the seller or their listing then this is not exactly cut and dry.
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Your doing what the OP asked not to.

Since the OP did not name the maker it does not matter.

This thread is not about seller disclosure its about makers letting poor quality knives leave their shop.

Hope this helps. :)
 
bigmark408 said:
Most common issues are lockbar related.
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True, I've experienced this with frame locks before. All it takes is the middle or index finger to (lightly) press the frame lock towards the blade while opening. This is one reason I prefer liner locks as that is where my middle finger naturally lies one a flipper and index lies in the same spot on a non flipper.
 
It's hard to know without knowing the maker. It may be a legit issue or it may be the op, who as never owned a flipper before, needing some help with technique.

If the maker didn't use bearings or set up a really strong detent, it may not deploy 100% every time for someone who had never owned a flipper. Doesn't mean it's a bad flipper, just need to refine your technique.

My Michael Vagnino Velox has a low profile flipper and not a strong detent. It flips amazingly fast every time for me. If I give it to someone, they can't do it without a little practice. Michael is old school and doesn't use the overly strong detent that is popular these days and still made an amazing flipper.

John W. Smith is generally recognized as one of the best makers in terms of fit and finish. His knives are perfect. He doesn't use bearings. My f5 flipper is one of the smoothest knives I own but you need to be able to light switch a flipper properly before you can get it to deploy 100%.

I learned how to use a flipper on a kershaw skyline so there usually isn't a knife out there I can't get to fly out.

I know the op doesn't want to bah the market but it might legitimately provide us with the info we need to properly assess the situation.
 
I just had this experience and it really struck a nerve. Its called custom because someone did the fit and finish my hand, or did they just assemble some parts? I am learning it really is alot of hype. They charged me $75 to fix what should have never left their shop, and thats more than I paid for a kershaw factory second that works everytime I pull it out. I asked for a refund/return but it was a custom so that apparently isnt how it works. I sometimes wonder how you build a reputation with that? Its not a good situation to be in, Waiting forever for the knife to be made, disappointment when it turns out suck even though you want to believe that it doesnt, then they want to charge you to make it right and offer no refund or return. I could have had alot of enjoyment blowing that cash on ammo or strip club.
 
Scurvy092 said:
It's hard to know without knowing the maker. It may be a legit issue or it may be the op, who as never owned a flipper before, needing some help with technique.

If the maker didn't use bearings or set up a really strong detent, it may not deploy 100% every time for someone who had never owned a flipper. Doesn't mean it's a bad flipper, just need to refine your technique.

My Michael Vagnino Velox has a low profile flipper and not a strong detent. It flips amazingly fast every time for me. If I give it to someone, they can't do it without a little practice. Michael is old school and doesn't use the overly strong detent that is popular these days and still made an amazing flipper.

John W. Smith is generally recognized as one of the best makers in terms of fit and finish. His knives are perfect. He doesn't use bearings. My f5 flipper is one of the smoothest knives I own but you need to be able to light switch a flipper properly before you can get it to deploy 100%.

I learned how to use a flipper on a kershaw skyline so there usually isn't a knife out there I can't get to fly out.

I know the op doesn't want to bah the market but it might legitimately provide us with the info we need to properly assess the situation.
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The OP clearly states " deployment is flawless ".
 
bigmark408 said:
Your doing what the OP asked not to.

Since the OP did not name the maker it does not matter.

This thread is not about seller disclosure its about makers letting poor quality knives leave their shop.

Hope this helps. :)
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Lol perhaps I didn't understand the OP as well as I originally thought. Thanks for the clarity. :thumbup:

So this thread really doesn't matter since no one on BladeForums ever wants to receive a knife that doesn't work out of the box. Should this have been a poll instead or do we all agree on this point?
 
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