High performance knife - prove it to me

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
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Someone holds up a knife in front of you and says: "This is a high performance knife." You, being the doubting Thomas, have reservations about the guy's boast.

Normally, there are tests that can be done in a planned situation but you and that guy are somewhere out in the field.

How do you proceed to make good that claim of being a high performance knife?

Chopping up a few fair-sized branches, stabbing it into a tree trunk, wedge it between two big rocks and bend it. All of the above, none of it or take the guy's word for it?
 
If that's all the person said, I would immediately dismiss them as ignorant.

My reasoning is that "this is a high performance knife" is a meaningless statement, unless qualified within certain parameters.
 
I think Ed Fowler has probably done more to popularize the term, "high performance knife" than anyone; he has probably done more to try and develop such a knife than anyone, at least according to the parameters he has established.

The problem with issuing a blanket term like this is that there are so many specialized things knives can be used for that what constitutes a high-performance knife for one application might not translate to someone else's need.

For example, I would rather have a Pronghorn than any knife I know of, hands down. I live on the high plains in a very rural setting. I process several deer a year, I coon hunt 3-5 nights a week year round, and I spend a lot of time outdoors. So a Pronghorn would be of tremendous value to me.

However, if I was a saltwater diver, I wouldn't want one to take to the water with me. It would rust too badly.

Every person and every maker has to define "high performance" before you really even could say that the term has value .
 
Hi Golok. What would "prove" it to you?

We use a CATRA for abrasion resistance testing. accurate, consistant, repeatable with graphs for documentation. We have a guy that is testing all of the time. Lots of comparative data for performance in the area of edge retention.

We built our own computerized breaking machine. We break everything, blades for tensile strength, locks (we have standards set up for each model), materials like G-10 (no, they are not all the same), etc. The graphs give us accurate comparisons as to where the performance really is.

We use "Q-fog" for corrosion resistance testing. Done at different times (4 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours & 48 hours). Numerical comparisons.

When we claim performance (which we've been doing since 1981), we have data to support our claims. We also use the test data to improve performance.

Is there a better way?

sal
 
sal
take note that golok is talking about a potential conversation out in the field
he's more concerned with what could be done on the spot to 'prove' the toughness of the knife, not actual data
and what if the manufacturers of the 'high performance knife' we're speaking of don't hold themselves up to your kind of scrupulous standards?
you see what i mean?
 
Rambo: Hey Mike, I got a new "high performance Knife" the other day.

Mike: Good for you. Do you want a cookie?

In other words, I could care less. If he wants to chop a car in half, I'll let him have at it (as long as it isn't my car). As long as my knife will cut and do what I need it to do, I could care less if it is "high performance".

JMHO,

Mike
 
Thanx DEA. In that case, I too am interested in the answers. In fact I question whether such a test could be done in the field.

I also agree with Coonskinner that a definition of "performance" would have to be established before one could test for it.

"Sharpness" is often the result of who sharpened it, with what and at what angle and skill level.

"Edge retention" (abrasion resistance) also has such factors as steel, heat treat, geometry and edge angle.

Some do not consider "corrosion resistance" as part of performance. Carbon steel verses stainless steel?

Sounds like another Golok question to me. Good thread. I'll play "Devil's advocate".

Maybe it is as MelancholyMutt says; the "name" is half the proof?

sal
 
this is where the powers of observation could be useful... examine the knife CAREFULLY, most people can tell a cheap copy from a well made, precise instrument. how are the grinds, what is etched, stamped ect. on the steel as far as what the blade made out of, how do all the parts fit together? of course this will not replace hard testing, but it's a start...
 
Interesting question...
WHat Id probably say is "nice knife", regardless of what I thought.
Don't want to hurt his feelings.
THen Id no doubt have my own opinions, somewhat well informed, on whether I agreed with him.
In most cases Id be pretty familiar with the knife in question and know whether I thought it was high performance in some regard.
If I cared and thought it mattered I'd ask him, "What do you mean?"
THen he says;
Its an excellent skinning knife
or
its wonder super steel
or
its tough as hell and really cool.

In the last case, the only one that would really matter to me Id ask him if I could see it.
Id hold it, evaluate it on my own criteria visually and by feel and then if I was still interested I'd ask if I could hack on a branch or something.
Or, how he would feel comfortable demonstrating its performance.
Then I would have satisfied my own curiosity and go on with my life, possibly wanting one as well.
I would not require that he destroy or damage it to prove such a claim to me.
And as a fellow knife lover I'd pretty much take him at his word...
That he liked his knife a lot.
Like I said, no reason to hurt his feelings about it.

Of course it depends on his claim.
Most likely he just wants to show off his new knife in which case the best answer is "cool knife".
If he wants to be a boor about it and say its indestructible, cooler than, tougher than, better than your knife, etc.
Then its time to start the destructive testing.
Throwing, rock chopping, digging, or mailing to Cliff Stamp will probably help determine the former knifes relative performance

.
 
The first thing I would ask the guy would be "High performance AT what ?"
If he could answer that question then I would be prepared to go half way with them and take more of an interest.

Example :
For fine work I often carry a sub 3.5" hollow ground folder with an inclusive grind of 30 degrees or so. These little beautes are real little pocket scalples and are very "high performance" on light tasks, but at the same time it wouldn't be high performance at clearing bush and sharpening wooden stakes.
If I were doing heavier tasks like clearing sight lines through tree branches I would go for a 7"+ full flat ground fixed blade with a fairly shallow grind angle, but again this wouldn't be as effective at some of the lighter tasks where sharpness is paramount.
 
I've stabbed my EDC into the tire of a moving car and used it to scrap hardened tar off a tin roof... with no damage to it or to me.

I say that makes it a pretty high performance knife. :D

But really, High Performance has to do with what you want it to perform.

No knife is a ballerina, or Anthony Hopkins... so asking it to perform is rather silly, it'll just sit there, and all your friends will think you are crazy, yelling at your little knife to do the third act of Hamlet.
I just want my knives to cut. ;)
 
When we claim performance (which we've been doing since 1981), we have data to support our claims. We also use the test data to improve performance.
Click to expand...

Is there a better way?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is. The industry can establish an independent testing laboratories to provide performance specifications for any knife submitted. Whether it is a straight production knife, or a custom knife which a maker intends to use as a standard model, they can all be tested and evaluated on a number of different parameters. The test should be designed so that no knife can possibly exceed at all of them, and probably no more then half of them. Perhaps test each knife along a standard set of 10-20 parameters, with the intent of highlighting where each knife excells.

This would end the "my knife is the greatest" advertizing BS, and provide some real parameters for both users and collectors. The industry can open up a whole new avenues of interests by doing this. Perhaps collectors will go after knives with a certain corrosion resistence, or those that have a given edge impact level? It would certainly improve on the current level of conversation; which boils down to "cool looking knife", and it uses XYZ wonder steel.

n2s
 
Here is another example:

Take a guy who for whatever reason has less then optimal use of his hand (e.g. a weaken grip from arthritis), and he might be looking for knives with a torque (force required to effect a cut) of no more then "X". It doesn't matter what "X" is, or what it stands for (perhaps the amount of force required to drive the edge through a given cardboard), as long as each knife is ranked. Experience will eventually identify a comfortable rating and he can then use that rating to guide him in selecting his next purchase.

n2s
 
Wow, wouldn't that be something to have something/someone like CONSUMER REPORTS test the gamut of knives from production to custom and come up with a standardized acceptable method of determining performance?

That would certainly be an eye-opener

:eek: :eek:
 
That would certainly be an eye-opener
Click to expand...

It would certainly provide marketing with something to talk about, and designers with something to strive for...

n2s
 
You would have to specify "performance" before you could proceed with any form of testing.
A Spyderco Starmate is a great knife, but it would'nt perform too great as a surgeon's scalpel.

Don't make the mistake of associating "high performance" with the ability to withstand lots of abuse.
A sledge hammer can withstand tons of abuse, but it makes a lousy shovel!

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Allen,

It doesn't have to be a one size fits all thing. If you want to have a 2" hunter rated, you probably would NOT bother testing it for chopping ability. But, you could certainly test it's cutting ability and run it through a battery of environmental tests to see how the materials hold up. So what if a scalpel is sharper, hunter A has less cutting ability then a scalpel, but it rates much better then the heavy camp knife. This isn't a pass fail, it is a relative rating.

Right now all we have are pictures of somebody's forearm and the guy's assertion that the knife is "shaving sharp". Whatever this is, it would be far more informative.

n2s

edited to add the word NOT. :D
 
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