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I'd go with the Spyderco Southard. I cannot stand the ZT 0560; their ELMAX steel is terrible.
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High Quality Production Flippers?
- Thread starter FrankC512
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When I hear "high quality" I tend to think high dollar. I would vote for the Southard, espicially since you want a better steel. One not to overlook that is high quality but not pricey is the Kershaw R.A.M. Not the highest end steel, but should be a general step up from Aus 8.
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I have many bearing flippers. Of them all I would say the southard is the best of the lot. The 0560 is a good knife. I love mine. But if I had to dump my whole collection the southard would be the last to go if it went at all. The fit and finish is exemplary and for me its the perfect size. The ONLY thing I think they could have improved on would have been the detent. Mine pops open just as fast as my other flippers but it has a smaller detent ball and a lot of lockbar pressure. Usually large amounts of pressure on the lockbar of a bearing flipper is to increase the detent hold so that the blade pops faster. I prefer the way the newer CRKT's are. They use a lighter lockbar pressure and compensate by increasing the size of the detent ball. Because the the lock has less pressure, it creates less drag as it rubs on the blade. And the larger detent ball has more radius to the surface of it making it smoother as it rubs. But if that is my only bone to pick then I would say its one step away from being a perfect knife. The rest of it is near custom quality.
I own a crkt M21-GL (I'm a southpaw) and it is a great flipper & has no blade play when locked.
Have also used and fondled some of the larger ones and they are just as good if not better for flipping. Only down side to theses knives is that they have the safety lock, which is easily reamovable
If you would like to spend some extra $$$ I vote southard
Have also used and fondled some of the larger ones and they are just as good if not better for flipping. Only down side to theses knives is that they have the safety lock, which is easily reamovable
If you would like to spend some extra $$$ I vote southard
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I've found the Microtech Production Whale Shark to be a fast and smooth flipper and a great cutter. They are also very well made and fit and finish is impressive.
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Please explain. I tend to disagree with you.
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- Mar 16, 2011
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For me, given what's out now and what I've used...
--ZT 0560: this is the easiest flipper I own to deploy. Had to break it in, but no wrist action opening the knife perpendicular to the ground for me 90% of the time. i.e. blade traveling against gravity the entire time of travel.
--The MT Whaleshark is the same for me. Not as smooth (big difference to me actually), but the detent is stronger so the blade pops out with more force. My only dislike of it (other than it not being as smooth as the ZT) is that, for me, it's not as easy to switch grips quickly due to the extra curve in the handle and all the weight being in the blade. But that's really just trying to find an irritation with it.
My other flippers require wrist action or are assisted opening. I assume you don't want assisted opening otherwise this would all be moot I'd think. Though, speaking of assisted openers, I do intend to get a ZT0566 when they're available. Nice shape. The Cryo II is also a consideration.
--ZT 0560: this is the easiest flipper I own to deploy. Had to break it in, but no wrist action opening the knife perpendicular to the ground for me 90% of the time. i.e. blade traveling against gravity the entire time of travel.
--The MT Whaleshark is the same for me. Not as smooth (big difference to me actually), but the detent is stronger so the blade pops out with more force. My only dislike of it (other than it not being as smooth as the ZT) is that, for me, it's not as easy to switch grips quickly due to the extra curve in the handle and all the weight being in the blade. But that's really just trying to find an irritation with it.
My other flippers require wrist action or are assisted opening. I assume you don't want assisted opening otherwise this would all be moot I'd think. Though, speaking of assisted openers, I do intend to get a ZT0566 when they're available. Nice shape. The Cryo II is also a consideration.
dkb45
Gold Member
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A lefty suggesting the Southard!? Blasphemy!
I would suggest the CRKT Ripple or Eros. Those things flip like a dream, and won't break the bank and give a lot of bang for your buck.
Thanks for all the recommendations guys. Right now I'm looking at the 0560, Combative Edge M1, and the Fantoni HB 01. Couple questions for you guys though. ZT offers the 0560 in both S35V and Elmax, with about a hundred dollar price increase for the Elmax. Is it really that much better? Also, would love to hear from someone with experience with the Fantoni, specifically whether the flipper can be actuated with gloves on. Thanks again.
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I don't know where you're seeing that the 0560 is s35vn. The 0550 is s35vn though and it doesn't have a flipper.
Your right, my mistake.
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Im sure he is referring to you tube videos where people like smokeeater908 and Gavkoo use the 560 in cutting tests and found that their examples didnt hold an edge very long. Ive seen a few of these videos as well. Gavkoo has stated that it may have been the earlier production knives of the 0560 when they werent as familiar with the steel. He theorized that they were overheating the edge when sharpening due to elmaxs very high abrasion resistance. He found that removing some of the steel at the edge helped by remove what was possibly damaged during sharpening. He claims he sees this issue with many production knives made with elmax. I have one of the first 500 0560s made and mine didnt hold an edge very long either. But all the issues ive ever read about with the edge retention were on earlier examples like mine. I have not seen any videos or recent posts on poor edge retention on the more recent 056X knives. Unfortunately it would seem some people read about or watch these videos and judge the knife based on these things and simply repeat what they have heard and never really experience the knife for themselves. I had a southard come in that was off centered. But I got another that was perfect. I dont think its fair to judge an entire line of knives because of one experience.
I also had the same experiance... ZT Elmax is definitely mediocre, its just hold an edge worse than 154CM on my Griptilian.
Just do some googling and you will see there are lots of negative comment on Elmax/and also several review video on Youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4vUzezz8hU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQzcYT9Dds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a55Q8g8d9Vc
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Out of those three, I would go with the 0560. I don't know enough about the Fantoni but after seeing videos online and then handling one at Blade, I would rule out the Combative Edge. The detent is SO weak on them that there is no way to flip it without a good bit of wrist action.
The 0560 is at least $25 cheaper than the Fantoni, Titanium framelock over titanium liner lock, and USA vs Italy made.
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That very well might be why you dont have any issues with your knives. Supposedly some feel the issues with the zt knives happen in sharpening. Elmax is very abrasion resistant. And as such its sometimes hard to sharpen. If when sharpening these knives too much heat is build up it can take the temper out of the steel right at the edge. In many cases you can reprofile the knife exposing steel that wasnt effected by the original sharpening process. If your blade was reground by tom krein he very well could have ground past any issues that may have been prevalent in your blade if there were any. If you noticed better edge retention since having it reground that very well may be the case seeing tom is known for some pretty thin grinds. Still your knife very well may NEVER have had an issue. The problems with the 0560 that some people experience is certainly not on the majority of the knives as you would be hearing a lot more complaining than you currently see. There have definitely been issues with some of the knives, I dont think there is any way to deny that. But It would seem that there are some people who voice their opinion on the topic and are simply repeating what they have heard. And I dont think that is fair. IMHO its just as irresponsible to trash a knife you have no experience with as it is to recommend a knife that you either havent used or hasnt been released yet which seems to happen a lot. Its pretty simple really if you havent even handled it how can you recommend or not recommend it? Im not saying the person above is guilty of that. Im just saying I have seen a lot of it.
also as I understand it the fantoni does not have a bearing system if that is something the op is wanting. I hear they flip ok but I know myself I prefer bearings whenever possible to washers. Especially when getting up that far in price. Much of the cost of the fantoni is import taxes and duties as well.
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+1 to this. Plus, zt's warranty is amazing and if you somehow break your blade, send your knife in + $30 and they'll replace the blade with a non engraved one.
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The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 sprint run in CTS-204P? Just kidding.
I'd say the ZT 560 and Spyderco Southard as well.
