Bali-Flipper
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No offence but IMHO I think that knife doesn't look to appealing for $297,000 let alone $100. All I can say is Ouch, I wish I had that kind of money to throw around 
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Highest price paid???
- Thread starter Gollnick
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Bali-Flipper
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Sorry Double post
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Originally posted by Bali-Flipper
No offence but IMHO I think that knife doesn't look to appealing for $297,000 let alone $100. All I can say is Ouch, I wish I had that kind of money to throw around
I'm with you Bali-Flipper. Maybe someone should tell that dude that he could buy a Cold Steel Bushman for about $20!
FTC
Full Tang Clan
Real Old Japanese swords are still auctioned and they are not priceless.
Japan was held by at least American and Australian troops after WW2. Soldiers being soldiers were always on the look out for good souvenirs to take back home. Given that the swords meant so much to the Japanese and they were banned from owning them after WW2, they made the best souvenirs.
The old swords weren't all destroyed after WW2 they just migrated, mainly to the USA and Australia.
That much is history.
Now for opinion.
A modern sword, using a good modern steel and heat treat, would be far better than an old Japanese sword. There a lot of mysticism and marketing by collectors of Japanese swords that has seen the value of their collections increase dramatically, nothing wrong with that its just good business.
Regards
Pinpoint
Real Old Japanese swords are still auctioned and they are not priceless.
Japan was held by at least American and Australian troops after WW2. Soldiers being soldiers were always on the look out for good souvenirs to take back home. Given that the swords meant so much to the Japanese and they were banned from owning them after WW2, they made the best souvenirs.
The old swords weren't all destroyed after WW2 they just migrated, mainly to the USA and Australia.
That much is history.
Now for opinion.
A modern sword, using a good modern steel and heat treat, would be far better than an old Japanese sword. There a lot of mysticism and marketing by collectors of Japanese swords that has seen the value of their collections increase dramatically, nothing wrong with that its just good business.
Regards
Pinpoint
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Thanks for your perspective Pinpoint.
Perhaps "priceless" is not the best adjective. I suppose most everything has a price.
However, I just want to make a distinction between swords that were factory made, WW II military issue katanas (issued for symbolic purposes to the military along with a perverted definition of bushido) with the samurai swords of the aforementioned feudal period (some predating even the famous swordsman, Miyamoto Musashi http://www.thehistoryofjapan.com/musashi.html). Just because it's shaped like a katana and was made in Japan, does not make it an authentic feudal era sword.
Yes, I would agree that soldiers who may have had samurai lineage may have carried their family heirloom swords into combat. However, many Japanese soldiers did not come from samurai lineage. Ergo, they would probably not have heirloom swords.
Remember, samurais were not just a military distinction but a class distinction and only they could carry katanas. Therefore, it's not as if every family on the block was a samurai and owned a sword. Now consider that some of the feudal swords were lost, damaged, etc. way before the 1940's. I think they're more rare than you believe.
Therefore, by playing the odds, I argue that the majority of katanas that American and Austrailian soldiers brought back may not be the real McCoys that date back to feudal Japan. Of the ones that are known to be real, they are in the hands of collectors, the collectors know how rare it is, and therefore is not likely to see Christie's auction house anytime soon. I've read that many are owned by Japanese corporations and high-profile business men who own them not just for the monetary value but as a symbol of strength.
Think about it. How common are original Samuel Colt .45's? Pretty rare. And that's only a little over a hundred years old, in a populace country like the U.S. Now think just how difficult it would be for a sword much older than that to survive corrosion, generations, Westernization,...
That's just my opinion and theory (based on some facts and some conjecture).
Ankerson
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Full Tang Clan,
Yes you are correct...most of the swords that came out of WW II were made in factories and were not made the same way as the really old swords.
The WW II swords were forged lamated steel 3 to 7 layers around a center peice of steel. Worth around $10,000 today.
The "real" Katana's from the feudal period were folded steel, usually over 1000 folds and they were very tough and are very rare today.
But there are some still out there for sure, handed down from generation to generation...But I doubt you will see many of them for sale if any.
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Ankerson,
Thanks for seconding my theory. I've seen a lot of your posts and you seem to know more than I do about cutlery and its history...so I believe you more than I believe me!
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Tarsier,
You got way too much time on your hands...not to mention you left out Microtech!
You got way too much time on your hands...not to mention you left out Microtech!
Full Tang Clan: "Now consider that some of the feudal swords were lost, damaged, etc. way before the 1940's. I think they're more rare than you believe. Therefore, by playing the odds, I argue that the majority of katanas that American and Austrailian soldiers brought back may not be the real McCoys that date back to feudal Japan. Of the ones that are known to be real, they are in the hands of collectors, the collectors know how rare it is, and therefore is not likely to see Christie's auction house anytime soon."
I agree some old swords would have been destroyed pre and post WW2, But when you have the legal right to stip a country of all weaponry and take it home your going to end up with all the goodies. If this wasn't the case why have Japanese collectors been flying to Australia for the past 30 to 40 years buying back swords. I don't think they'd come all this way to buy some pig iron, machine made sword.
Even if all the swords are in the hands of collectors they are still going to make it to the auction houses as something is only worth what you can sell it for, thats why you see Sam Houston's bowie for sale
Ankerson: "The WW II swords were forged lamated steel 3 to 7 layers around a center peice of steel. Worth around $10,000 today." If by this you mean something like the NCO's swords your paying way too much in America and should do some shopping in Australia. Japanese swords seem to be around $US500 to $2500.
Also you note "The "real" Katana's from the feudal period were folded steel, usually over 1000 folds and they were very tough and are very rare today." If they were so tough why did the stlye of Japanese fencing evolve so that there is a minimum of blade to blade contact. European swords were made to stand up to battle conditions not just to cut down unarmed peasants or prisoners of war.
Don't take this too seriously I just think that Japanese swords have become very trendy as people forget the reality of what they represented in WW2.
Regards
Pinpoint
I agree some old swords would have been destroyed pre and post WW2, But when you have the legal right to stip a country of all weaponry and take it home your going to end up with all the goodies. If this wasn't the case why have Japanese collectors been flying to Australia for the past 30 to 40 years buying back swords. I don't think they'd come all this way to buy some pig iron, machine made sword.
Even if all the swords are in the hands of collectors they are still going to make it to the auction houses as something is only worth what you can sell it for, thats why you see Sam Houston's bowie for sale
Ankerson: "The WW II swords were forged lamated steel 3 to 7 layers around a center peice of steel. Worth around $10,000 today." If by this you mean something like the NCO's swords your paying way too much in America and should do some shopping in Australia. Japanese swords seem to be around $US500 to $2500.
Also you note "The "real" Katana's from the feudal period were folded steel, usually over 1000 folds and they were very tough and are very rare today." If they were so tough why did the stlye of Japanese fencing evolve so that there is a minimum of blade to blade contact. European swords were made to stand up to battle conditions not just to cut down unarmed peasants or prisoners of war.
Don't take this too seriously I just think that Japanese swords have become very trendy as people forget the reality of what they represented in WW2.
Regards
Pinpoint
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Three reasons:
1. Surfin' on Bondai Beach
2. Those cool boomerangs
3. Kylie Minogue
I'd fly over just for number 3!
FTC
Ankerson
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pinpoint,
Even today they don't use real swords in "Fencing".
They have always used wooden swords for training "Fencing".
The reason is that the Katanas are ment to cut flesh and as with any sword when you start beating it around after awhile it will start to change (Get out of shape).
have you ever seen real battle swords...swords that were really used in battle?
They are beat to hell....
The Katanas were prized positions and you don't beat them around Fencing....
Plus Katans aren't sharpened the same way as other swords....they are polished to an edge...you would ruin a Katana by sharpening it in the normal filing or useing a stone.
Even today they don't use real swords in "Fencing".
They have always used wooden swords for training "Fencing".
The reason is that the Katanas are ment to cut flesh and as with any sword when you start beating it around after awhile it will start to change (Get out of shape).
have you ever seen real battle swords...swords that were really used in battle?
They are beat to hell....
The Katanas were prized positions and you don't beat them around Fencing....
Plus Katans aren't sharpened the same way as other swords....they are polished to an edge...you would ruin a Katana by sharpening it in the normal filing or useing a stone.
Les Robertson
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Keith,
The "Gem of the Orient" sold for 1.5 Million Yen, not dollars. I belive the sale price was between $250,000 and $300,000.
Still not bad money.
The "Gem of the Orient" sold for 1.5 Million Yen, not dollars. I belive the sale price was between $250,000 and $300,000.
Still not bad money.
Les Robertson
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Robb,
You are correct, the Yen was at a much higher rate in the late 80's/early 90's. However, it was probably more than 1.5 million yen.
Hugh's piece I belive sold in the neighborhood of $23,000 - $25,000. He alos won "best new knifemaker of the year" at the Blade Show that year. Most of the people in attendance that knew Hugh found that to be pretty humorous.
You are correct, the Yen was at a much higher rate in the late 80's/early 90's. However, it was probably more than 1.5 million yen.
Hugh's piece I belive sold in the neighborhood of $23,000 - $25,000. He alos won "best new knifemaker of the year" at the Blade Show that year. Most of the people in attendance that knew Hugh found that to be pretty humorous.
Ankerson
When I referred to fencing I was referring to the style of Japanese sword fighting not to the sport(Kendo). My understanding is that a Japanese swordman would avoid blade to blade contact at any cost for the reasons that you mentioned, the blade would be broken or badly notched. Thats why I have trouble understanding why people think that katanas are tough when they could not stand up to the rigours of battle against armoured and armed opponents. I think they saw far more action beheading prisoners of war.
Full Tang Clan: Your welcome to number 3, she's a bit too skinny for my tastes.
Regards
Pinpoint
When I referred to fencing I was referring to the style of Japanese sword fighting not to the sport(Kendo). My understanding is that a Japanese swordman would avoid blade to blade contact at any cost for the reasons that you mentioned, the blade would be broken or badly notched. Thats why I have trouble understanding why people think that katanas are tough when they could not stand up to the rigours of battle against armoured and armed opponents. I think they saw far more action beheading prisoners of war.
Full Tang Clan: Your welcome to number 3, she's a bit too skinny for my tastes.
Regards
Pinpoint
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Then I guess the article in Blade is wrong because it definitely states the price as $1.5 million. 38 onces of gold, 9 diamonds and 148 emeralds were used in the making of this knife.
I know it sold for more than Buster's pure gold copy of the King Tut Dagger which is another of the most valuable knives ever made.
I know it sold for more than Buster's pure gold copy of the King Tut Dagger which is another of the most valuable knives ever made.