Hinderer, Benchmade, and Spyderco

M

me2

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Oct 11, 2003
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I just recieved a Hinderer on loan to try out, so I thought I'd compare it to 2 familiar knives. I have a Delica and a Griptillian for comparison.

Opening smoothness - the Hinderer and the Grip are very close. The Hinderer arrived with a loose pivot. After tightening just to the point it could be flipped open with the thumb stud, it was very smooth and the blade was recentered, which was off when it arrived. The Grip was also very smooth, no centering issues, and can be flipped open and closed via Axis lock. The smoothness of the Delica was good, though behind the other 2. The blade in the Delica is slightly off center, but does not touch the sides of the handle.

Blade play is present in the Delica in both vertical and horizontal direction. It is very slight, but can be felt when holding the handle and trying to move the blade with the other hand.

After tightening, the Hinderer has blade play in the vertical direction. Again, its very small, but present.

The Griptillian has no detectable play when holding the handle and trying to move the blade by hand.

All three knives are dull and will need to be sharpened before cutting.

The locks of each seem fine. The lockback of the Delica is time proven. The Axis is one of my favorite locks, and the Hinderers framelock is sturdy. The Hinderers lock seats just shy of halfway across the tang bearing surface.

The pocket clips of all 3 knives move slightly when pushed, though the Hinderer has a machined pocket that prevents it from going far.

Some background on each knife. The Hinderer is an XM18 w/ 3" blade. It has been used a d resharpened, as confirmed by the owner. It has not been disassembled, as I originally thought. It was bought on the secondary market after purchase from Hinderer by the original owner. The Delica and Grip have been carried and used, resharpened and used some more. The Hinderer is 20CV steel, the Grip is S30V, and the Delica is VG-10.
 
I have never experienced blade play with an XM-18 that is properly tightened. Some one may have monkeyed with yours in the past. That said, you can force blade play in pretty much any knife if you exert enough pressure, and Hinderers have teflon washers, but there should be none under normal pressure. Just my 2 cents.
 
What is considered normal pressure? Its not much, not visible, just feelable, but more than the Grip. I wouldnt consider it worth mentioning except for the reputation of the knife.
 
Well, I'd say have the owner send it in to Hinderer because this sounds like someone monkied around with it.
 
So this is a "knife review" by comparing three totally different knives, each with different blade steels, build materials, opening and closing methods and locks and they are all used and in different conditions. In your first post you started right off saying you would not pay more than $75. for the Hinderer and the only testing you did is cut a hamburger in half.

No pictures no videos as asked for, I can see why this thread was moved to "whine and cheese"
 
First, yes I'll admit the $75 comment was out of line. Second, reading the other thread will tell you when to expect video. Third, I came into this with a rather unfavorable opinion of Hinderer knives. However, never actually using one, that seems unfair, so I arranged to try one to give them a shot. It carries easily, the clip is secure, and it is easy to access when required. Compared to the other 2, which I've carried a bit, it is essentially the same as the Delica, which is to very good. The Delica ranks as the most carriable knife I've owned. The Grip is noticably bulkier than the Hinderer, though the weight difference isnt noticable.
 
You don't see the "tight tolerances" of the Hinderer? Then I would respectfully suggest you look a little closer at the design and construction and possibly familiarize yourself with the knife a little more before recording a video and posting it for the world to see.

I'll help you out a bit, the pivot should have loctite on it so that you can set it properly and not have it move easily (i.e., you shouldn't be able to adjust it with your thumb). They come with loctite on them from Hinderer Knives. When they are adjusted and secured properly, the blade still moves easily while the blade is centered and lockup is solid.

Also, the XM's G10 (and not Zytel as you state at 9:09) cutout on the scale is not supposed to be flush with the liner, it was designed that way to avoid accidental disengagement of the lock. I have never noticed any discomfort from the scale in carrying an XM for two years.

You apparently don't value the amount of titanium in the XM (compared to Zytel in the Benchmade and FRN in the Spyderco), the oversized SS pivot that is easily adjustable, the massive SS standoffs and custom SS screws, or the robust reversible Ti clip. I have no issue with the Griptilian or the Delica, both excellent knives for their intended purpose and price point, but comparing them to the XM-18 is silly and your bias is obvious.

While you are it, why don't you tighten up the clip on the XM-18. Good luck with your comparison.
 
I would consider most of those design features and not necessarily indicative of tight tolerances. However, your points are well taken. The standoff spacers are particularly striking, and unlike any I've seen before. The screws are appealing and are just shy of flush with the G10, protruding ever so slightly. I don't know if they are intended to be flush or not. I had an idea that the G10 was not supposed to be flush around the cut out, and thought I stated in the video I didn't know if it was meant to or not and also that I doubted it would cause discomfort. The pivot does not appear to have locktite on it, though I've not taken it out to see. I thought about taking the knife apart, but after reading the difficulty on the Hinderer forum of recentering the blade during reassembly, I'll just leave it together. You are correct that at the 9:09 mark I mistakenly called the G10 Zytel.

My bias should be obvious. I stated it in post #8 above. That said, the Hinderer is growing on me. The clip is very secure, holding the knife securely in my pocket or on my body harness without worry. The clip is relatively unobtrusive, as clips go, but there's no way around that without taking it off. The opening is very smooth, and the lock works beautifully. The knife is also easy to carry, not getting in the way or snagged on things. This is the Griptillians downfall. It's just a bit to big and gets in the way sometimes.

I don't know why the comparison is silly. The Delica and Griptillian are cheaper knives, but they are also very popular and common knives. Any knife enthusiast can relate to them and a knife compared to them will give some immediate perspective. I can only think that the Hinderer should easily leave them behind in fit and finish. It is better, but not by much. The Hinderer has some blade play, the clip wiggles around a little, there are places around the edge where the G10 and liner are not flush, other than the intentional ones discussed above. There is a screw protruding inside the handle, and no, it's not the closing stop pin. Functionally, none of this is a problem, but one of the selling points is the tight tolerances. The materials do warrant some of the price, as Ti and G10 are viewed as better materials, as is the 20CV blade steel. I'll try tightening the clip. I'm also going to restore the original bevel angle. This one seems to have crept up during sharpening by the owner. I'll bring it down to the originally measured 19-20 degrees per side.

Since you've watched the video, what do you think are the chances that this one is a fake? I'm still saying very low, since it was originally bought from the maker. There is the chance that the seller was lying, but I consider that very low as well.
 
Began rebeveling the Hinderer. The other knives are already rebeveled, they just need resharpening. I'm trying to match the 20 degrees per side (dps) bevel it had when it came to the owner. It's very close, maybe 22-23 at most. No issues so far. My Norton 220 grit waterstone seems to cut the steel nicely. Any sharpening issues to watch out for, like tenacious burrs, edge chipping if one is to heavy handed, etc?
 
I swapped a Banana for this XM, it is almost worth it too.

Its ok but not as good as my spyderco bug.

It has loads of blade play.

Silly1_zpsd0658f18.jpg


And the clip was loose too, how lame is that!

Silly2_zpsca53692e.jpg


I tried to clip the knife to my ear but the clip came off, not as good as the bugs clip.

Silly3_zps4b2ea3e8.jpg


And what do you know, the scale on this one does not line up either damnit, this ZM blows.

Silly4_zpsd7d0b562.jpg


I thought I'd improve it, tried to find some FRN and polystyrene.

Silly5_zpsef22c8d2.jpg


There, much better now, rubbishy titanium and duratech stuff...
 
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Having watched the video the XM doesn't look like a fake. However, how in the heck can the clip move like that? It's hard enough just getting the clip in and out of the clip hole and with 2 screws tightened down I just can't figure out how the clip could possibly move at all... So that makes me wonder if you've got a fake, because the clip hole and clip should fit super tight.... Last comment - before you make a video why don't you tighten up the screws on the clips? I think it would be good for you to show the break down of the 3 knives too for cleaning and lubing. That should be a part of the comparison...
 
Holy crap...I love that new polystyrene blade! What is the rw hardness? What degree bevel do you keep that at? I must have one for my ZM!
 
Did you swap for a regular banana in high vis yellow or age it for tactical black? Those serrations look pretty uneven. You should send it back and get that fixed.
 
Maprik said:
Having watched the video the XM doesn't look like a fake. However, how in the heck can the clip move like that? It's hard enough just getting the clip in and out of the clip hole and with 2 screws tightened down I just can't figure out how the clip could possibly move at all... So that makes me wonder if you've got a fake, because the clip hole and clip should fit super tight.... Last comment - before you make a video why don't you tighten up the screws on the clips? I think it would be good for you to show the break down of the 3 knives too for cleaning and lubing. That should be a part of the comparison...
Click to expand...

I suppose theres always a chance its a fake, but with the seller getting it from the maker then flipping it, I dont see where it could happen. My understanding is the new logo onthe blade is there to make copying even more difficult.

I won't be taking this one apart. The blade is centered, and smooth. The clips are all tight. They just all move a little. As far as I know, the clip on the Hinderer and Delica have not been messed with at all. I swapped the Grip clip for left handed carry. I'll try tightening the XM clip and see if it helps.
 
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