Hinderer Firetac?

I will admit it, I love boring knives:

I know the secondary value will drop dramatically, I know the materials and design don't warrant the price, but it still didn't stop me from buying a Firetac at retail cost last night. I love the Sebenza because it personifies the "boring knife" (which to me is a compliment), and this is the Hinderer Sebenza. Or maybe the Hinderer Inkosi to be more accurate.

Regardless, the Firetac is so plain and traditionally "knifey" that I'm all about it. I have a 4 Sebenza 21's, an Inkosi, and an Umnumzaan I can compare it to once it arrives early next week for parties interested.
 
I will admit it, I love boring knives:

I know the secondary value will drop dramatically, I know the materials and design don't warrant the price, but it still didn't stop me from buying a Firetac at retail cost last night. I love the Sebenza because it personifies the "boring knife" (which to me is a compliment), and this is the Hinderer Sebenza. Or maybe the Hinderer Inkosi to be more accurate.

Regardless, the Firetac is so plain and traditionally "knifey" that I'm all about it. I have a 4 Sebenza 21's, an Inkosi, and an Umnumzaan I can compare it to once it arrives early next week for parties interested.
That would be great. I’m definitely interested.
 
I’ve said it before, but... if Hinderer, Strider, and Chris Reeve had their industry debut today and kept their current pricing structure, they would go bankrupt in less than a year.

They’re riding a wave of name recognition. ZT and a wave of Chinese manufacturers are going to crowd them out sooner rather than later. You can only hold onto a market for so long with a half dozen models that have so much direct competition.
 
I’ve said it before, but... if Hinderer, Strider, and Chris Reeve had their industry debut today and kept their current pricing structure, they would go bankrupt in less than a year.

They’re riding a wave of name recognition. ZT and a wave of Chinese manufacturers are going to crowd them out sooner rather than later. You can only hold onto a market for so long with a half dozen models that have so much direct competition.

Brand cache is perhaps more powerful than you're estimating. CRK is producing at maximum capacity to keep up with demand and Hinderer is up to ~45 employees now, they just keep expanding. Strider is... Strider. Maybe they're doing worse.

Considering these knives are marketed at enthusiasts and not at a broader audience, I think there will be enough people to keep them in business for a long time. If the enthusiast market existed purely on a rational cost/quality ratio, everyone would carry a S110V lightweight Manix 2 and that's it.
 
I have to agree on that point. It is about pride of ownership for enthusiasts in many cases. I can get a Chinese knife made with same materials and all but the pride of ownership will not be there; For me at least. If I bought based solely on cutting stuff any $30 knife would be fine for my needs.
 
I’ve said it before, but... if Hinderer, Strider, and Chris Reeve had their industry debut today and kept their current pricing structure, they would go bankrupt in less than a year.

They’re riding a wave of name recognition. ZT and a wave of Chinese manufacturers are going to crowd them out sooner rather than later. You can only hold onto a market for so long with a half dozen models that have so much direct competition.
I agree with you in that all knives over $200 are overpriced, for the most part. But, people are buying up We and Reate knives made in China for $300 plus dollars. I personally feel that buying a Hinderer or CRK knife at a $100-$150 premium over knives made overseas is worth it. To each his own, I suppose. I think that ZT is really coming into their own and will certainly continue to take away market share from other U.S. manufacturers that are charging such steep prices. I was criticized on another thread for saying that ZT was a relative bargain for what they offer compared to similar competition. In fact, I recently saw a YouTube knife reviewer consider the price of one of ZT’s newer models to be a negative point in the review for the knife, but will praise other production knives costing 5 times as much with almost the same materials. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns
 
Brand cache is perhaps more powerful than you're estimating. CRK is producing at maximum capacity to keep up with demand and Hinderer is up to ~45 employees now, they just keep expanding. Strider is... Strider. Maybe they're doing worse.

Considering these knives are marketed at enthusiasts and not at a broader audience, I think there will be enough people to keep them in business for a long time. If the enthusiast market existed purely on a rational cost/quality ratio, everyone would carry a S110V lightweight Manix 2 and that's it.
I can only hope that a tiny tiny portion of the reason why strider may be doing worse is because of me.
 
I’ve said it before, but... if Hinderer, Strider, and Chris Reeve had their industry debut today and kept their current pricing structure, they would go bankrupt in less than a year.

They’re riding a wave of name recognition. ZT and a wave of Chinese manufacturers are going to crowd them out sooner rather than later. You can only hold onto a market for so long with a half dozen models that have so much direct competition.

It’s a fairly flawed premise, though, since key innovations in the industry wouldn’t exist without CRK and Hinderer (Strider really does NOT belong in the same category).

Neither of them are going anywhere except up. Demand for both CRK and RHK is only increasing.
 
I can only hope that a tiny tiny portion of the reason why strider may be doing worse is because of me.
Not sure Strider is struggling, but you certainly get an A for effort :) If nothing else you are making sure those new to the game are informed.

As for CRK and Hinderer they both have quality products and very good marketing. I expect them to continue to do well. The competition today is much closer, but mainly because they showed them how it can and should be done.
 
Steel Will Resident - D2/CF/TI ~$85
Steel-Will-Resident-F15-91-BHQ-77680-er.jpg


Hinderer Firetac - 20cv/G10/Ti ~$425
Hinderer-Knives-Firetac-Spanto-Black-G-10-SW-BHQ-84390-jr-large.jpg


I'm underwhelmed.

Maybe 30% better in terms of blade steel and overall build quality(guessing) for 500% the price.

That is probably the case with at least 80% of the high end knives knifenuts like me lust after.
 
This turned into a much better conversation than I anticipated. By & large, I agree with most opinions expressed (which is rare for a Hinderer thread with CRK overlap—hahaha!)

I’ve said it before, but... if Hinderer, Strider, and Chris Reeve had their industry debut today and kept their current pricing structure, they would go bankrupt in less than a year.

They’re riding a wave of name recognition. ZT and a wave of Chinese manufacturers are going to crowd them out sooner rather than later. You can only hold onto a market for so long with a half dozen models that have so much direct competition.

I’m a CRK fan for lots of reasons I wont enumerate here. In summary, for me they still offer something extra I just haven’t found (yet) in other knives. This (^^^^) might be a a little strong, but on some level I agree with the sentiment and its extension to other brands.

I agree with you in that all knives over $200 are overpriced, for the most part. But, people are buying up We and Reate knives made in China for $300 plus dollars. I personally feel that buying a Hinderer or CRK knife at a $100-$150 premium over knives made overseas is worth it. To each his own, I suppose. I think that ZT is really coming into their own and will certainly continue to take away market share from other U.S. manufacturers that are charging such steep prices. I was criticized on another thread for saying that ZT was a relative bargain for what they offer compared to similar competition. In fact, I recently saw a YouTube knife reviewer consider the price of one of ZT’s newer models to be a negative point in the review for the knife, but will praise other production knives costing 5 times as much with almost the same materials. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns

I was just thinking almost the exact thing yesterday! (Although like most I would like to see prices come down across the board—:))
 
I bought one looks to me like a nice non flipper more useful to me hinderer. Ie thinner blade stock. And honestly lately been on the hunt for something that’s not a bearing flipper and this is about the only thin that’s has sparked on my radar. Was about to look for a older midtech like the talos or something.
 
I've had my Firetac (spearpoint, working finish) for a few days now, and here are some initial thoughts and comparisons to the Sebenza 21 and Inkosi. I will upload images later which I'm sure will be more instructive.

I will start by saying my first impressions of the Firetac are pretty good, but certainly not astounding or "wow"-ing. That is probably no surprise as the Firetac isn't exactly a complicated or technically impressive achievement, it's just sort of an exercise in simplicity. I'm not necessarily sure I would recommend it to someone who isn't a Hinderer fan or isn't looking for certain specific criteria the Firetac matches.

Blade:

The Firetac and the Inkosi have more in common here than the Firetac and the Sebenza 21. Both are 0.14" stock, the Hinderer in CPM-20CV and the Inkosi in CPM-S35VN. For just about everyone, CPM-20CV will be preferred over S35VN. The Firetac, at least in Spearpoint configuration, has a thin flat grind that terminates at 0.022" behind the edge on my model. This is slightly thinner than the 21 (hollow ground) or Inkosi (very shallow hollow), but just barely. It should be noted that the Firetac's blade is less wide than either the 21's or Inkosi's, so I'm quite pleased they got the edge as thin as they did.

Unsurprisingly, it cuts well, far better than the slicer grind XM-18 3.5" I had previously. I can't really see why someone would need the spanto version here as the tip is not super thin on the spearpoint, and it has limited visual appeal (you can barely see change in grinds at least in the pictures I've seen). The sharpening job on the Firetac was exemplary. This isn't super important, but the thumb disc on the Firetac is really nicely knurled, the knurling looks very precise and well done in comparison to an Emerson thumb disc.

Handle:

The Firetac takes the usual Hinderer construction of G10 and a Ti liner with a Ti framelock. This allows for weight savings that makes it more comparable to the CF scaled Sebenza 21 or Inkosi than the full Ti models. Surprisingly, the handle is slightly thinner than the 21 or Inkosi's, and dramatically thinner than an XM-18 3.5". The working finish is quite nice in person, I was happy they came out so quickly after the stonewash models were released.

The Firetac is constructed more similarly to the 21 than the Inkosi, using hex-headed screws (conveniently the same size hex key can be used for both the Firetac and the Sebenza 21). The body screws on the Firetac thread into the standoffs, which are shouldered in the Ti. The pivot is not a conventional Hinderer pivot but much smaller, and has hex key heads on both sides so you will need to use one to immobilize it and the other to adjust the screw. Unlike the 21, the pivot screw is a different size than the body screws. The pocket clip screws are Phillips head as on most Hinderer models, and the lockbar insert screw is a very small Hex key.

Ergonomics are quite similarly neutral across the Firetac and 21. I find them both equally comfortable in hand due to their unoffensive designs. The Firetac handle swells more towards the rear unlike the CRK models, which keep a similar height across the handle, and that could make it more secure. The jimping on all models is equally functional. I find the Firetac to feel a lot better in hand when it is tip-up rather than tip-down.

Action:

All three of these knives are very smooth, but the CRK's feel completely different than the Hinderer in the way this is achieved. I should first add that the Firetac came with the pivot over-tightened from the factory and with a rather effortful, but smooth action. As I suspected, loosening the pivot helped dramatically and didn't introduce issues with centering or blade play.

CRK's are known for generally having very high lockbar tension, and generally have a very effortful kind of smoothness. They never feel "loose" unless you full release the lockbar pressure. I've found this consistent across the 7 CRK models I own.

The Firetac, is the opposite; it has very, very light lockbar tension. So light actually that every time I unlock it, I'm thankful for both overtravel stops as it hits them. Consequently, the knife is very smooth and much more fluid than the CRK's I own. I switched in some phosphor bronze washers I had lying around (they are not the same size as the XM-18 3.5" washers FYI) and I'm not sure I really feel any difference from the original teflon.

As a result of the light lockbar tension, the retention of the blade in the handle on the Hinderer is not superb. I cannot shake any CRK's out (but nor are they hard to open), whereas with the Firetac it's rather easy to do so. Mine appears to be easier to shake out than Topcatpt Topcatpt , who sent me a video of his, so perhaps this isn't consistent across models. I think the Firetac could benefit from some increased lockbar tension. Unfortunately, I don't think this is something Hinderer will do for you judging by the conditions of their warranty as stated on their website (they don't change detent strength).

Preliminary Conclusions:

Ultimately, the Firetac seems to be a cool, no-nonsense EDC knife aimed at being purely utilitarian. I think it achieves that. Whether that appeals to you for $425 is something you personally need to decide. Hinderer will surely support this with a glut of accessories which is something you might not get with an equivalent CRK or Strider.
 
I will admit it, I love boring knives:

I know the secondary value will drop dramatically, I know the materials and design don't warrant the price, but it still didn't stop me from buying a Firetac at retail cost last night. I love the Sebenza because it personifies the "boring knife" (which to me is a compliment), and this is the Hinderer Sebenza. Or maybe the Hinderer Inkosi to be more accurate.

Regardless, the Firetac is so plain and traditionally "knifey" that I'm all about it. I have a 4 Sebenza 21's, an Inkosi, and an Umnumzaan I can compare it to once it arrives early next week for parties interested.

Ever considered a Spartan Blades Harsey folder? Seems like it may be a happy medium?
 
I've had my Firetac (spearpoint, working finish) for a few days now, and here are some initial thoughts and comparisons to the Sebenza 21 and Inkosi. I will upload images later which I'm sure will be more instructive.

I will start by saying my first impressions of the Firetac are pretty good, but certainly not astounding or "wow"-ing. That is probably no surprise as the Firetac isn't exactly a complicated or technically impressive achievement, it's just sort of an exercise in simplicity. I'm not necessarily sure I would recommend it to someone who isn't a Hinderer fan or isn't looking for certain specific criteria the Firetac matches.

Blade:

The Firetac and the Inkosi have more in common here than the Firetac and the Sebenza 21. Both are 0.14" stock, the Hinderer in CPM-20CV and the Inkosi in CPM-S35VN. For just about everyone, CPM-20CV will be preferred over S35VN. The Firetac, at least in Spearpoint configuration, has a thin flat grind that terminates at 0.022" behind the edge on my model. This is slightly thinner than the 21 (hollow ground) or Inkosi (very shallow hollow), but just barely. It should be noted that the Firetac's blade is less wide than either the 21's or Inkosi's, so I'm quite pleased they got the edge as thin as they did.

Unsurprisingly, it cuts well, far better than the slicer grind XM-18 3.5" I had previously. I can't really see why someone would need the spanto version here as the tip is not super thin on the spearpoint, and it has limited visual appeal (you can barely see change in grinds at least in the pictures I've seen). The sharpening job on the Firetac was exemplary. This isn't super important, but the thumb disc on the Firetac is really nicely knurled, the knurling looks very precise and well done in comparison to an Emerson thumb disc.

Handle:

The Firetac takes the usual Hinderer construction of G10 and a Ti liner with a Ti framelock. This allows for weight savings that makes it more comparable to the CF scaled Sebenza 21 or Inkosi than the full Ti models. Surprisingly, the handle is slightly thinner than the 21 or Inkosi's, and dramatically thinner than an XM-18 3.5". The working finish is quite nice in person, I was happy they came out so quickly after the stonewash models were released.

The Firetac is constructed more similarly to the 21 than the Inkosi, using hex-headed screws (conveniently the same size hex key can be used for both the Firetac and the Sebenza 21). The body screws on the Firetac thread into the standoffs, which are shouldered in the Ti. The pivot is not a conventional Hinderer pivot but much smaller, and has hex key heads on both sides so you will need to use one to immobilize it and the other to adjust the screw. Unlike the 21, the pivot screw is a different size than the body screws. The pocket clip screws are Phillips head as on most Hinderer models, and the lockbar insert screw is a very small Hex key.

Ergonomics are quite similarly neutral across the Firetac and 21. I find them both equally comfortable in hand due to their unoffensive designs. The Firetac handle swells more towards the rear unlike the CRK models, which keep a similar height across the handle, and that could make it more secure. The jimping on all models is equally functional. I find the Firetac to feel a lot better in hand when it is tip-up rather than tip-down.

Action:

All three of these knives are very smooth, but the CRK's feel completely different than the Hinderer in the way this is achieved. I should first add that the Firetac came with the pivot over-tightened from the factory and with a rather effortful, but smooth action. As I suspected, loosening the pivot helped dramatically and didn't introduce issues with centering or blade play.

CRK's are known for generally having very high lockbar tension, and generally have a very effortful kind of smoothness. They never feel "loose" unless you full release the lockbar pressure. I've found this consistent across the 7 CRK models I own.

The Firetac, is the opposite; it has very, very light lockbar tension. So light actually that every time I unlock it, I'm thankful for both overtravel stops as it hits them. Consequently, the knife is very smooth and much more fluid than the CRK's I own. I switched in some phosphor bronze washers I had lying around (they are not the same size as the XM-18 3.5" washers FYI) and I'm not sure I really feel any difference from the original teflon.

As a result of the light lockbar tension, the retention of the blade in the handle on the Hinderer is not superb. I cannot shake any CRK's out (but nor are they hard to open), whereas with the Firetac it's rather easy to do so. Mine appears to be easier to shake out than Topcatpt Topcatpt , who sent me a video of his, so perhaps this isn't consistent across models. I think the Firetac could benefit from some increased lockbar tension. Unfortunately, I don't think this is something Hinderer will do for you judging by the conditions of their warranty as stated on their website (they don't change detent strength).

Preliminary Conclusions:

Ultimately, the Firetac seems to be a cool, no-nonsense EDC knife aimed at being purely utilitarian. I think it achieves that. Whether that appeals to you for $425 is something you personally need to decide. Hinderer will surely support this with a glut of accessories which is something you might not get with an equivalent CRK or Strider.
Excellent first impressions. Thanks for sharing. Does the light lockbar tension worry you about the overall strength of the lock up? Would you recommend the Sebenza 21 over this in terms of build quality?
 
I like simplicity as well. Comparing this to a CRK I lean towards the Hinderer a tad only because of blade steel.
 
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So I’m digging mine now but I had to mod it. I hate thumb ramps and the terzoula style one on this I couldn’t love it. Was going to sell tried tonwas gonna take a huge loss. So I removed the thumb ramp instead. Now I dig it a lot. Action on mines great fit it finish is too. The detent on mine is fine as far as lock bar tension I do think it will have any issues with lock up. Dave measures the cut out and it’s no thinner than 90 percent of other lock bar cut outs.
 
I will admit it, I love boring knives:

I know the secondary value will drop dramatically, I know the materials and design don't warrant the price, but it still didn't stop me from buying a Firetac at retail cost last night. I love the Sebenza because it personifies the "boring knife" (which to me is a compliment), and this is the Hinderer Sebenza. Or maybe the Hinderer Inkosi to be more accurate.

Regardless, the Firetac is so plain and traditionally "knifey" that I'm all about it. I have a 4 Sebenza 21's, an Inkosi, and an Umnumzaan I can compare it to once it arrives early next week for parties interested.

I just started checking out this knife as well and everything you said reflects on my taste as well. But it seems maybe a bit too simple.

It reminds of Terozula designs a little bit as well. I am very interested in your thoughts. The only thing that looks off to me is the pivot pin. I look forward to handling one but every time I play with a Hinderer it just doesn't click.
 
I just started checking out this knife as well and everything you said reflects on my taste as well. But it seems maybe a bit too simple.

It reminds of Terozula designs a little bit as well. I am very interested in your thoughts. The only thing that looks off to me is the pivot pin. I look forward to handling one but every time I play with a Hinderer it just doesn't click.


It’s like a combo of hinderer meets sebenza. It’s super smooth flicks nice. The grind is decently thin behind the edge, slices good. Good ergos besides the thumb ramp that I removed(also definitely a personal preference). I’m
Not a hinderer fan usually. Mainly for the thick ass grinds. But this one after a small mod is a winner for me. But it is rather a simple plain knife. So is it a must have probably not but maybe for some. Looks wise I think the sebenza wins out but with the hinderer you get a steel lock bar insert and a better blade steel so?
 
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