History of the M124 Frontiersman?

Two completely different ways of putting a knife together.

Full-Tang Construction:

full_tang_knife.png


Hidden-Tang Construction:

KnifeAnatomy10.jpg


There......not difficult to understand at all......but perhaps easier with pictures.

Similar, but definitely not the same.
 
BG42EDGE said:
Two completely different ways of putting a knife together.

Full-Tang Construction:

full_tang_knife.png


Hidden-Tang Construction:

KnifeAnatomy10.jpg


There......not difficult to understand at all......but perhaps easier with pictures.

Similar, but definitely not the same.
Click to expand...
They are both FULL TANG too.:)
 
Oh well it's always fun helping our special needs members,now off to burn a steak and drink a beer.Happy 4th to all those that value freedom!
 
We aren't going to make other members the topic of conversation. Please stay on topic.

Thanks

Jason
 
skyhorse said:
They are both FULL TANG too.
Click to expand...

No, they are not.

If you carefully examine the pictures, you will discover that one tang is both longer and wider and all in one piece.

The other is shorter and much narrower and has to have a bolt attached to hold everything together.

Thus they are called by different names--Full tang.....and.....Hidden tang.

These are two distinctly different methods of knife construction. One is clearly a stronger design.

Two completely different ways of putting a knife together.

Full-Tang Construction:

full_tang_knife.png




Hidden-Tang Construction:
KnifeAnatomy10.jpg
 
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I don't see how a hidden tang could be the same as full, the end of a hidden tang goes into a but cap of some kind so that alone will take away some of the length, so a hidden tang is not and can not be full.
 
BG42EDGE said:
Two completely different ways of putting a knife together.

Full-Tang Construction:

full_tang_knife.png


Hidden-Tang Construction:

KnifeAnatomy10.jpg


There......not difficult to understand at all......but perhaps easier with pictures.

Similar, but definitely not the same.
Click to expand...

The bottom drawing is similar to the BUCK barrell nuts in the early 60's.
The NEMO was never a barrell nut ,the 1st version NEMO had 4 pommel pins in it through
the full tang.
 
Evil Eye Earl said:
The bottom drawing is similar to the BUCK barrell nuts in the early 60's.
The NEMO was never a barrell nut ,the 1st version NEMO had 4 pommel pins in it through
the full tang.
Click to expand...

Sounds cool.

Maybe you have a diagram you can post.

Still doesn't sound like a real full tang if all those pins are in the pommel.

A full tang would have some pins through the handle (like they do with the 124) not just the pommel.

Sounds like it's still just another hidden tang.
 
BG42EDGE said:
Sounds cool.

Maybe you have a diagram you can post.

Still doesn't sound like a real full tang if all those pins are in the pommel.

A full tang would have some pins through the handle (like they do with the 124) not just the pommel.

Sounds like it's still just another hidden tang.
Click to expand...

So pins in a handle and the pommel make a full tang,and a NEMO with pins in the handle would make it a full tang also?
 
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Evil Eye Earl said:
So pins in a handle and the pommel make a full tang,and a NEMO with pins in the handle would make it a full tang also?
Click to expand...

It would usually have two pins through the handle from side to side......just like the 124. Maybe three like the nice old Kalingas.

As long as you can see that tang all the way along and around the handle, front to back, top and bottom......it's a full tang.

If you can't SEE the tang.......how could it be full? If it were full you'd be able to see it.

If it has a blob of aluminum tacked on the end of the tang.......it CAN'T be a full tang, only partial.

Full means full and NOT QUITE full means--partial.

I understand that Buck likes to call their 102s, 105s, etc. all the way out to 120--FULL Tangs.

That's ok, all's fair in love and marketing and many people agree with them.

When a knife has a nice big blade that suddenly gets much narrower at the hilt......that's not a full tang and it's also a knife that will break right at that point when you're killing a bear or doing other tough work.

Like this one......the guy even says, "If it would have been full tang it wouldn't have broken."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaB1D_w0dYU
 
BG42EDGE said:
It would usually have two pins through the handle from side to side......just like the 124. Maybe three like the nice old Kalingas.

As long as you can see that tang all the way along and around the handle, front to back, top and bottom......it's a full tang.

If you can't SEE the tang.......how could it be full? If it were full you'd be able to see it.

If it has a blob of aluminum tacked on the end of the tang.......it CAN'T be a full tang, only partial.

Full means full and NOT QUITE full means--partial.

I understand that Buck likes to call their 102s, 105s, etc. all the way out to 120--FULL Tangs.

That's ok, all's fair in love and marketing and many people agree with them.

When a knife has a nice big blade that suddenly gets much narrower at the hilt......that's not a full tang and it's also a knife that will break right at that point when you're killing a bear or doing other tough work.

Like this one......the guy even says, "If it would have been full tang it wouldn't have broken."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaB1D_w0dYU
Click to expand...

I watched the video ,and he said probably wouldn't have broke .
Did you read the comments on the video?

I will have some pics tomorrow or the next day for you ...... a little test.:D
Gotta curl up with the dogs close to fire ....later.
So study everything you can about the 122/124 and you may score high.
 
Well, I didn't claim to know much about the knife.......I just claimed to know what the definition of is is.

Full is full.......98% full is......NOT full.

We should have called this: Is Your Tang Half-Full or Half Empty???

We got a few optimists here.

:D

But this discussion has resulted in a lot of good info about the 122/124 getting out, so I'm thumbs up on it.

:)
 
We already know that they claim this type of knife to be full tang (post #91).

I understand that Buck likes to call their 102s, 105s, etc. all the way out to 120--FULL Tangs.

That's ok, all's fair in love and marketing and many people agree with them.
Click to expand...

And many don't.

A 124 is a far different construction from a 120.

:)
 
This discussion has lead me to a question. Why did Buck find it necessary to make the design change of the 122/124 from the early design to the later design? Better grip, more strength?

Seems to me that the failure of the Nemo was only a failure of the name, sheath and the advertising of it as a dive knife. The knife itself continued on and seems to te a very popular pattern to this day. Perhaps the demographics had at least something to do with it. There just has to be more hunters, campers and woodsmen in this country than there are divers.
 
I think the failure was a failure of 440C more than anything else. It simply was not as rust resistant as it needed to be to serve in a knife used in salt water. The design change may have been an attempt to have a stronger knife (full tang) which also gave the additional benefit that salt water could not sneak INSIDE and destroy that small interior hidden tang.

The new design was still 440C and it too, failed.

Which was why I asked the question earlier: would a 420HC Nemo work?

As for the 124, it's not "popular" except with a small demographic--therefore not commercially viable as regular production.

Actually, while it is much loved by some collectors and knife enthusiasts......overall, it's an unpopular knife with the general public.

That's why it went out of regular production (as did the 120). It's just too big to be of use to most people.
 
As a diver, most dive knives today are on the smallish size...3"-4" blade...and high alloy stainless with molded handles and snap in sheath design. Titanium blades are in use as well. There really wouldn't be much of a market for a 124 size knife in the dive world...if there ever was...
 
Off topic: Myodo Foundry H-1 Stainless Steel would be ideal blade material for a Buck diving knife because it is impervious to salt/wet, won't rust, not expensive, capable ot reasonably high hardness, easy to sharpen and its not difficult to work this steel into a blade. Googling the five key words above yields much information, including a Cliff Stamp review, for those new to this steel.
 
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