Hitachi laminated steel test knife WIP

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Thought I would share this WIP and the final product.
It's not perfect but I continue to gain knowledge and experience,
pls let me know your thoughts on the final product, obviously Loveless inspired.
Your comments will help me improve as a maker
The blade is on the very thin side so it's a light use desk knife only.

This is a Hitachi white steel bar cut up into strips that I will forge. I cut little mini strips to make small knives while I was still learning the HT process of harden, quench, temper. The steel is expensive and since this is still R & D work, I wanted to get as much use out of the bar as I could.

forged to final thickness, no need to forge in bevels since it's so thin, my hammering still not the best but Jerid Johnson gave me some guidance and at least I have some direction to make improvements in the future

sandblasted to remove scale

cold forged, controversial perhaps but that's how I learned to process this steel

trimmed to profile shape with this new shear

holes drilled

clay slip I put together with various ingredients

ready to HT

after straight water quench

start bevels and check for core exposure with ferric chloride

brass bolster tongue into ironwood

sanding away

not the best fit since I don't really grind it too flat, spine was already about .064

and done, still learning how to make the brass bolster pins "disappear"

thanks for looking

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Cool to watch your journey into forging H. Looks like fun.

 

[Greenberg Woods]

Beautiful work Harbeer! If I had to guess as to the brass pins on brass bolster, I would guess they are different alloys. I'm sure mcmaster or aome contact you have could get you identicall alloy brass.

Looking forward to meeting you when I come back!

Ben Greenberg
Greenberg Woods

 

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If I had to guess as to the brass pins on brass bolster, I would guess they are different alloys

Good call Ben. In fact I had to run to ace hardware to get the the brass pin rod which was in fact a different color.

 

[Greenberg Woods]

i would try mcmaster

 

[Don Nguyen]

I was thinking that your methods were super similar to Murrays, then I remembered your username and realized you did take lessons from him.

I don't know about the bolster/tang construction though. I guess that depends on the type of work you're doing with the knife but a standard hidden tang would be so much stronger.

 

[Greenberg Woods]

I was thinking that your methods were super similar to Murrays,/QUOTE]

i have his book and thought the exact same thing

 

[coldsteelburns]

This is just too fun to watch. I'd love to see some pics of your shop, looks nice! And please keep us up to date with your working with this steel and these knives.

I think the blade would look nicer if you etched it to show the dark core steel. That's just my taste though, as well as the fact that you're using such a great (and cool) SS/White #1 san mai steel. I just think it diserves to be shown off a bit.

Thanks for sharing, your threads are always very interesting!

~Paul

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My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)

 

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This is just too fun to watch. I'd love to see some pics of your shop, looks nice! And please keep us up to date with your working with this steel and these knives.

I think the blade would look nicer if you etched it to show the dark core steel. That's just my taste though, as well as the fact that you're using such a great (and cool) SS/White #1 san mai steel. I just think it diserves to be shown off a bit.

Thanks for sharing, your threads are always very interesting!

~Paul

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My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)

thanks for the kind words.
my shop is a 2 car garage, we used to park 2 cars in there.....
it's not organized very well since I don't have proper electrical hookups
In fact there is only 1 outlet and switch coming in
when I get an extra $2000, I'll have the sub-panel and 220 and a dozen outlets and lighting put in

but here's a little peak from a few months ago, since these pics I have added a gas forge and anvil taking up more room and a 2nd bench top drill press
I also got 2 heavy butcher block tables in
and no I don't have the casters on the buffer base anymore, that was silly and didn't work out.....

 

[Brock Cutlery]

Nice shop pics H. You are inspiring me to get mine in order this weekend! Hey, why don't you have a spark bong on your dust collector? Isn't that a bit dangerous?
You should try out that Dust Deputy too. It collects a lot of junk and keeps it out of the bags.

 

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Yes , my dust collection now is different than these pics

 

[coldsteelburns]

Sweet set up! Some very nice pieces of machinery! Yea, I noticed in the WIP pics above that it looked like ya had a pretty "fancy" forge set up. Once you get it all wired up etc I'd for sure like to see some updated pics. Are those 2 disc grinders that are next to your dust collector both hooked up to a single vfd? I can't tell if the one I see to the left of your new steel shears in the WIP pic is a another one, or just one of those 2 in a different location. Don't mind me, I'm just a sucker for nicely equipped bladesmith/knifemaker shops.

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, how exactly have you altered your grinder dust collection since those pics? I ask because this is one thing I am in the middle of trying to get set up, because I'm at a stand still until I do. Right now I have a problem with lack a power (and space, but mostly power) to be able to run both, my 1hp (13.6 amps!) grinder along with a shop vac (at least another 8 amps) since all of my power is only coming from one extension cord out from our kitchen window and up through the wood floor in the shed/shop, which is connected to a powerstrip lol. I'm lucky enough that the extention cord is connected to a 20 amp outlet in our kitchen as opposed to the usual 15 in the other rooms. I am in the middle of trying to figure out the best and/or least $$$ way to get more power access in there at the moment, particularly for this matter.

Anyway, are you using a spark bong now? Also, do you have a dust deputy anywhere in the mix? I really wanted to use this small, portable dust collector that harbor freight sells, which is only 7 amps and is said to create (at least the description says) about 10 times the suction as most shop vacs. But If I connected it to a spark bong with water, I'd be worried that the filter bag on the dust collecter would get soaked with water and leak all over, as opposed to just sitting contained in the bottom of a wet/dry shop vac.

Anway, feel free to ignore these questions if they're too specific and/or too involved lol, and thanks for showing us some shop pics!

~Paul

---

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)

 

[HSC ///]

Sweet set up! Some very nice pieces of machinery! Yea, I noticed in the WIP pics above that it looked like ya had a pretty "fancy" forge set up. Once you get it all wired up etc I'd for sure like to see some updated pics. Are those 2 disc grinders that are next to your dust collector both hooked up to a single vfd? I can't tell if the one I see to the left of your new steel shears in the WIP pic is a another one, or just one of those 2 in a different location. Don't mind me, I'm just a sucker for nicely equipped bladesmith/knifemaker shops.

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, how exactly have you altered your grinder dust collection since those pics? I ask because this is one thing I am in the middle of trying to get set up, because I'm at a stand still until I do. Right now I have a problem with lack a power (and space, but mostly power) to be able to run both, my 1hp (13.6 amps!) grinder along with a shop vac (at least another 8 amps) since all of my power is only coming from one extension cord out from our kitchen window and up through the wood floor in the shed/shop, which is connected to a powerstrip lol. I'm lucky enough that the extention cord is connected to a 20 amp outlet in our kitchen as opposed to the usual 15 in the other rooms. I am in the middle of trying to figure out the best and/or least $$$ way to get more power access in there at the moment, particularly for this matter.

Anyway, are you using a spark bong now? Also, do you have a dust deputy anywhere in the mix? I really wanted to use this small, portable dust collector that harbor freight sells, which is only 7 amps and is said to create (at least the description says) about 10 times the suction as most shop vacs. But If I connected it to a spark bong with water, I'd be worried that the filter bag on the dust collecter would get soaked with water and leak all over, as opposed to just sitting contained in the bottom of a wet/dry shop vac.

Anway, feel free to ignore these questions if they're too specific and/or too involved lol, and thanks for showing us some shop pics!

~Paul

---

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)

I have 2 disc grinders, they both plug into the VFD with twist loc plugs, the can be used horizontally or vertically. The one by the shear is 1 of the 2

Here is an updated dust collection pic, frankly I think they need shrouds and the whole system works ok but could use fine tuning and maybe get rid of the plastic 4" tubing which is more for woodworking. I tried water in the buckets but one of the down pipes is too long and the dust collector sucked in water.

anvil and forge pics as well

 

[S.Alexander]

I have to ask, why do you cold forge? Does that not add stress to the steel?

 

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I have to ask, why do you cold forge? Does that not add stress to the steel?

Shane, I'm a student and learning so the simple answer is it's part of the process I was taught. A more involved answer requires me to borrow heavily from Murray Carter's Bladesmithing book, page 50-54. I'll paraphrase and quote from the book so I'm not offering any original thoughts here.

Cold forging is a common technique used by Japanese bladesmiths but seldom used by Western bladesmiths. "In simple terms it is the mechanical reduction in the steel's grain size through force when the steel is below normal forging temperatures. Cold forging makes the steel denser"

Murray goes on to address the controversy and theory behind the stress and micro fractures but argues that he has conducted research and destroyed blades on purpose to understand the cold forging limits. Further that all respected Japanese bladesmiths incorporate cold forging and unanimously agree it enhances cutting performance.

He states carbon/mild steel laminated blades seem to really benefit from cold forging and "do not generally show evidence of micro cracking" But Carter has also purposely destroyed a laminated blade by cold forging until the blade fractured.

I can tell you when I learned in the class with his power hammer, that the blows were very light and the hammer just barely making blows on the blade surface. It required alot of control with the foot pedal.

so in summary, while metallurgically some might argue that stress is added to the steel, Carter's experience and practical application have proven (to him) otherwise.

Hope this helps

Here's a kitchen knife that I did that has been cold forged on the power hammer. The power hammer leaves the blade very smooth and shiny. Unfortunately you don't get that nice of a finish with a hammer done by hand

 

[S.Alexander]

Thanks for your reply. That answers my question and then some. I don't think cold forging is something that I will choose to do, but it seems to work for others.

By the way, you have got a great looking shop there.

 

[HSC ///]

Thanks for your reply. That answers my question and then some. I don't think cold forging is something that I will choose to do, but it seems to work for others.

By the way, you have got a great looking shop there.

you are welcome

and thanks, you are very kind
but what I was really hoping to get is some feedback on my little knife

 

[S.Alexander]

you are welcome

and thanks, you are very kind
but what I was really hoping to get is some feedback on my little knife

I'm not a fan of that type of construction. It takes away the advantage of a fixed blade knife, of having a tang in the handle. Even though they were test blades and you were trying to conserve steel, I don't see a tang as a "waste" (my word, not yours) of steel.

I also believe you could have gotten a better fit at the transition of your bolsters, handle, and spacers. There are a few gaps within the transition there.

I like your blade shape and your grind looks nice a crisp.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

With all deference to Murray and his teachings, it is simple metallurgy and physics - hammering steel below forging temps will NOT make it denser. If that was so the best tools on earth would all be drop forged with 200 ton drop hammers. The density of steel is around 7.83g/cm3. This is called a constant because it is constant. All the hammering in the world won't make a knife blade denser.

It also will not mechanically refine the grain in the finished knife ( it really does not refine it much anyway). Even if it did, it would be changed in HT. Grain size is re-set in the HT.

I only posted these notes to point out some common misconceptions about cold forging. Generally, on an object to be hardened, it does no good, and can do some degree of harm. I really don't want to start a war about cold forging. Suffice to say that the subject has been extensively discussed before. These discussions can be read by using the custom search engine. If someone wants to cold forge his blades, no one can stop them, but they should at least know the metallurgy and physics of what it can/can't gain in a blade.

 

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I also believe you could have gotten a better fit at the transition of your bolsters, handle, and spacers. There are a few gaps within the transition there.

yes I don't disagree with you here, it was my first one like this, I can take more time on this in the future and improve.