Hitachi Steels

AFAIK, you can't find a steel like the 1.35% carbon (and little else), that Aldo has proposed. I believe it would be a huge winner. Basically a White 1 equivalent, and 1/8" would be a good starting point. I would be extremely interested in said steel. I know you (Aldo) haven't mentioned about a Blue 1 equivalent, or better yet a Super Blue equivalent, but personally I would like to see that as well, along the lines of 1.2513 (135WCrV4). Personally prefer the added wear resistance of the alloying over a straight carbon steel, but the hamon of the White 1 equivalent would be a major selling point.
 
Initially, I would buy 6+ bars. I prefer 1/8" & 3/32" & 5/64" thick for kitchen & edc knives. My ht process will delaminate san-mai uhc(ultra high carbon core) steel, so my working config is limited to mono steel - for now. If test blades turned out well, hoarding mode...

Yeah, sitting inventory = stuck$, so perhaps(if mill facilitates) roll initial 1T and additional ton on demand basis. Excess retail markup for 5T could stagnant inventory. Stacy will tests & publishes AB#1 ht :thumbup: even makers didn't know much about this steel will want some.

Aldo Bruno said:
Gentlemen,
I am wondering if this formula will satisfy your need for higher carbon. The steel is available. We just need to have it rolled. I am thinking that 1/8" would be the best place to start. Would love as much input as possible from you guy's. Bringing in a new grade makes me nervous.

1.1563(C125W) - 1.20 - 1.35% C, 0.10-0.30% Si, 0.10-0.25% Mn
Click to expand...
 
Aldo Bruno said:
Gentlemen,
I am wondering if this formula will satisfy your need for higher carbon. The steel is available. We just need to have it rolled. I am thinking that 1/8" would be the best place to start. Would love as much input as possible from you guy's. Bringing in a new grade makes me nervous.

1.1563(C125W) - 1.20 - 1.35% C, 0.10-0.30% Si, 0.10-0.25% Mn
Click to expand...


I think that would be awesome!!
 
Just to bring this back to a Hitachi White #1 based discussion:

Aldo isn't likely to invest $50,000 to $100,000 in making six types of steel in three or four thicknesses. He gets a mill to roll out a batch of one size and sells it. That costs him plenty, believe me. He is trying to offer us a Hitachi White #1 equivalent. He wants to offer it in the most popular size for kitchen knives and small hunters .... which is usually 1/8". If this sells well, he may add more sizes and perhaps other types, but for now he is discussing just this one alloy.
 
So if I understand correctly Aldo will provide and sell 1/8" thick bar of white steel #1 equivalent. This can be used as is or laminated as the bladesmith desires. Is this correct?

If so here's my opinion. If a maker isn't going to forgeweld laminate this steel then what is the point? There are other high quality high carbon steels already available that are suitable, less costly and we have all discussed this. Laminating the steel has benefits and qualities that produce a fine blade because you can make the knife thin and the core hard.

If you are going to laminate this product then I think 1/8" is too thick and costly. I would suggest .06 to .078" is adequate, desirable and less costly.

If I missed something here about the benefit of using an 1/8" bar, pls let me know.


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HSC /// said:
So if I understand correctly Aldo will provide and sell 1/8" thick bar of white steel #1 equivalent. This can be used as is or laminated as the bladesmith desires. Is this correct?

If so here's my opinion. If a maker isn't going to forgeweld laminate this steel then what is the point? There are other high quality high carbon steels already available that are suitable, less costly and we have all discussed this. Laminating the steel has benefits and qualities that produce a fine blade because you can make the knife thin and the core.

If you are going to laminate this product then I think 1/8" is too thick and costly. I would suggest .06 to .078" is adequate, desirable and less costly.

If I missed something here about the benefit of using an 1/8" bar, pls let me know.



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People will want to use this as a monosteel and go for a killer hamon.
 
HSC /// said:
Yes. I noticed a lot of recent hamon activity lately with many makers.


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W2 is fine for this, but we seem to believe we need more carbon than we really do. :eek:
 
Aldo Bruno said:
ALSO!!!!!

I would not be opposed to having this material made into a C125W/420 laminate. As a mater of fact I think it's a great idea. We already have the 52100/420 in stock. We have plans for rolling W-2/420. This stuff would make an excellent core.
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I do believe this laminated with some 410 or something would be great too. Would like to see what others thinks about this idea.
 
HSC ///

The packs that we weld up for rolling laminate are a bit over 1/2" thick x 16" x 24". When that gets rolled out for 3/32"(.103/.113) it ends up about .105+ inches long and the 1/8" center core is a hell of a lot thinner then when we begin. In the case of, say, an eleven layer multi-layered pack(still to be attempted but in the works :) as long as the center core is the same thickness(1/8") and the overall thickness of the pack is 1/2" we will always get a center core the same thickness if rolled to the same gauge(.103/.113)


noseoil

I realized very early on in this particular steel business that just keeping the movers in stock and turning over the warehouse 4 times a year was never going to cut it. We also realized that "Just Selling To Knifemakers" would limit our market. The fact is that we know our market well because of it. We want to supply what knifemakers want to make there knives out of and and not with what happens to be readily available and because of it we also realize that there is an apparent risk involved and strongly take it into consideration every time we add a steel to our stock. I just don't feel we would be doing our customers any justice if we don't. If I don't bring in grades that you guy's want then one of the main reasons for starting this company falls to the wayside and even though it may cut down sales in other grades, for the sake of our customers, I think it's worth the risk. We've managed to get other grades out there and are doing fine. (So far!)

samuraistuart

I have been looking for an ingot of 1,2519. More chrome, less tungsten and a little less carbon. What do you think?
 
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Aldo, that would be pretty cool (1.2513). I don't want to get too hung up on numbers, but prefer the high carbon and actually MORE tungsten. But honestly, I think you may do better with the White 1 equivalent. Not only is there hamon potential, steels like that can take a screaming sharp edge fairly easily, and work extremely well for kitchen knives. Thank you again!
 
Aldo Bruno said:
I realized very early on in this particular steel business that just keeping the movers in stock and turning over the warehouse 4 times a year was never going to cut it. We also realized that "Just Selling To Knifemakers" would limit our market. The fact is that we know our market well because of it. We want to supply what knifemakers want to make there knives out of and and not with what happens to be readily available and because of it we also realize that there is an apparent risk involved and strongly take it into consideration every time we add a steel to our stock. I just don't feel we would be doing our customers any justice if we don't. If I don't bring in grades that you guy's want then one of the main reasons for starting this company falls to the wayside and even though it may cut down sales in other grades, for the sake of our customers, I think it's worth the risk. We've managed to get other grades out there and are doing fine. (So far!)
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thank you for having this business approach instead of the usual worrying about inventory turns and penny pinching. that said, I would buy 1.2419 or BE2419 which is basically a super O1. I know Bestar brings it to the US from Germany in sheets as thin as 2.5mm, cold rolled and annealed. they also import strip 1.15mm to 1.65mm thick in widths from 2" to 12", 6' long. The other would be 1.2519 or BE2519 which is an O7. They import that in sheets 5mm thick and 25" square.
scott
 
Hey Scott,

I gave Bestar a call and they do have the 1.2519 in 5mm x 25 x 25. (over sized 3/16") which is thicker then you would need for a lot of knives. I spoke to Niagara Specialty Metals and they will roll it down to 1/8" or even 3/32" for kitchen knives. 1/8" should give us clean 30" bars and the 3/32" will give us 36" bars. I'd probably start with 500 pounds of each and we can see how it goes.

Thought?
 
Dictum is about a 45 min ride from me. I should bring a few with me on my next visit.

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Aldo Bruno said:
Hey Scott,

I gave Bestar a call and they do have the 1.2519 in 5mm x 25 x 25. (over sized 3/16") which is thicker then you would need for a lot of knives. I spoke to Niagara Specialty Metals and they will roll it down to 1/8" or even 3/32" for kitchen knives. 1/8" should give us clean 30" bars and the 3/32" will give us 36" bars. I'd probably start with 500 pounds of each and we can see how it goes.

Thought?
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i like that idea. what about the 1.2419? it should be available already cross-rolled. I also look forward to seeing 1.2842/O2, which should be a good all purpose steel and a good beginner's steel. Thank you for getting us some steel choices.
scott
 
I have been recently making chefs knives out of 1095 but have read a lot about the exceptional sharpness and hardness of Hitachi White #1 so was thrilled to read that Aldo was talking about selling an equivalent.

Unfortunately, this thread is two years old and it just ends without any announcements about his plans coming to fruition so I was wondering was this Hitachi White #1 equivalent ever actually made and sold by Aldo because I would love to get my hands on some??!!

I actually wondered why no one made a North American high carbon equivalent to Hitachi White #1 and wished someone would so if I am thinking that I’m sure there must be scores of others so if it is made I wouldn’t think he would have a problem unloading it.
 
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I don’t think anything came of it. I seriously think that if we could get a white 1 equivalent and a blue super equivalent, they would go over like hot cakes here in the states. I get that the steel industry doesn’t need these types, and the PM steels offer more advantages especially in other industries like dies, punches, molds, etc. not everyone has the HT oven or cryo set ups to HT these steels properly. Many are heat treating in forges. Roman Landes is a big champion of the F2, O7, Blue Super type steels So am I. Other than Achim in Germany, and a few German online vendors who rarely have 1.2519 in decent thickness, that’s it. It’s difficult to get enough $$ together to have Bestar or whoever to make 10,000 lb minimum order as well.
 
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