Holding Value

TurnerIII

TurnerIII

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Jul 20, 2005
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So what is it about some knives that after being introduced they only seem to walk backwards in price? Is it they type of person buying them or what? I once fancied myself as a Spyderco collector and had lots of interesting and hard to find knives - only to find out that when it came time to try and sell a few off that - if - they sold I was lucky to break even.

"Oh it has a sratch..." "What no box??..." "You used it???".....

I mean some other manufactrures have knives that only go up in price and scratches and boxes are of no importance.

No flame - just some observations..... Its a free country and I know that I can and have largly moved on. Still have a few special ones (to me at least) that I have kept.

Just wondering what others think on this.
 
I'd personally say that if you're looking to make 'investments' out of knives, you should narrow down your purchases to actual custom, or hand made pieces by known makers. That's what I am beginning to do. Darrell Ralph for example. A knife that might be made 20 times a year vs. one that has been manufactured several thousand times in a "run" is going to have a lot more collector appeal later on.
 
Knives wear when used. Sharpening removes material from the blade. I can't see even expecting to break even selling a used knife unless it had some very limited (aka custom made) production. And in that case, you would have paid so much to begin with that the market segment you plan to sell it in would be narrowed down significantly.
 
TurnerIII said:
So what is it about some knives that after being introduced they only seem to walk backwards in price?..
Just wondering what others think on this.
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the ONLY thing that goes up in value is real estate!
mutual funds & stocks?.. sure, go blue chips & long term.. they'll go up.
CDs & money markets.. don't even keep up with inflation

Anything else.. NOT an investment... an enjoyable hobby that pays some dividends on the side perhaps.. but gotta look at the time/value of it.
 
First - I like my Spydies. They are functional, well designed and usefull.

I just get a little confused by some who try to suggest "collectability" of a knife made in the thousands. They poo-poo the lack of a box when you try and sell it and act like knife snobs - again over a mass produced knife

BTW - what do I have on me right now.......... Delica 4. CE Green. :D
 
"the ONLY thing that goes up in value is real estate!
mutual funds & stocks?.. sure, go blue chips & long term.. they'll go up.
CDs & money markets.. don't even keep up with inflation

Anything else.. NOT an investment... an enjoyable hobby that pays some dividends on the side perhaps.. but gotta look at the time/value of it."

That is not true. If you know what you are doing, you can make more money out of buying and selling knives or guns than in the stock market. If you know what you are doing, it is safer as well. The thing is, you have to be willing to spend money. It is not the common stuff that makes money. There are always a few knives that you could have bought for $25 that are now worth $200 but you might as well play the lottery if that is what you are trying to do. You have to buy the best of the best in whatever you decide to invest in.

For example, if you want to invest in guns, you want to buy Colts and Winchesters. There are plenty of other names out there but Colt and Winchesters are money in the bank. They don't go down in value like other guns. I am talking about the already collectable guns here, not the modern ones. I mean, a Colt Peace Maker or a Winchester lever action. Buy the nicest most collectable model and it will go up for sure. You can wait for 100 years for your Glock to become a collecter but it will never happen.

That is why I am not a true collector. I want to use my stuff and enjoy it. If there is a Spyderco that I want, I want it because I want to use it. I only want Spydercos that I think will be good users. It seems that every model I really like is a collectable model now and I have to pay top dollar for it. Luckly, there are several in production Spydercos that are good enough to be collectables if they stop making them. The Calypso III would be worth a mint if Spyderco suddenly stopped making it. I also think the Delica 3s are going to bring a premium once people see that they were really well thought out. The D-4 is a better knife on paper but sometimes less is more. The D-3 was lighter and more pointy, those are two of the things that made it such a hit. The D-4 doesn't have that swagger somehow. It is a much better knife for sure but...
 
The folks that are willing to pay lots of money for a formerly inexpensive knife are collectors. Collectors pay full value or better only for items in perfect condition. Items in perfect condition convey the original manufacturing intent and are a snapshot of history.

As time wears on, there are fewer and fewer "perfect" condition "mass produced" items available. Eventually, there are more people wanting a perfect condition item from the past, whatever their interest. That is when these things become really valuable. Many Spyderco knives are made in runs of 1,000 or less. Compare that to the number of Buck 110 knives made yesterday in Idaho. I don't have that number, but I imagine it is way more than 1,000.

As for custom or handmade knives, these are less predictable than factory knives. There are zillions of high quality lockback handmade knives from the 1970's and 1980's sitting in dealer cases at knife shows unsold. From a percentage point of view, the percentage "return" on resale is no better than with perfect condition factory knives. So it depends on how much money you have to "invest". If you have more, you can "invest" in handmade knives which require a higher capital outlay.

On the other hand, if you buy 5 small-run Spydercos and hold them in perfect condition for 10 years, you will likely get a winner out of at least one of them, and likely get a return of some kind on the others.
 
kgriggs8 said:
..That is why I am not a true collector. I want to use my stuff and enjoy it..
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Neither am i!
At this very moment I'm wearing a Glock 23, a Delica 4 clipped in my pocket, and a Bushmaster AR15 at home in my office!
None will make me rich quick.. the first 2 are my favorite EDC.. they're with me when i'm in the restroom.

The only gun i've made money on is a Russian SKS i bought for $60, sold for $250. but i have atrocious gun laws to thank for that!

these last 5 years though.. i've made a killing in real estate :)

my blue chip funds have done.. meh.. ok. But I really got my butt kicked during the .dot com bust :(

Like you, I figure.. if it gives me enjoyment.. if I Use it.. then it was worth the money to me :)
 
Architect said:
The folks that are willing to pay lots of money for a formerly inexpensive knife are collectors. Collectors pay full value or better only for items in perfect condition. Items in perfect condition convey the original manufacturing intent and are a snapshot of history.

As time wears on, there are fewer and fewer "perfect" condition "mass produced" items available. Eventually, there are more people wanting a perfect condition item from the past, whatever their interest. That is when these things become really valuable. Many Spyderco knives are made in runs of 1,000 or less. Compare that to the number of Buck 110 knives made yesterday in Idaho. I don't have that number, but I imagine it is way more than 1,000.

As for custom or handmade knives, these are less predictable than factory knives. There are zillions of high quality lockback handmade knives from the 1970's and 1980's sitting in dealer cases at knife shows unsold. From a percentage point of view, the percentage "return" on resale is no better than with perfect condition factory knives. So it depends on how much money you have to "invest". If you have more, you can "invest" in handmade knives which require a higher capital outlay.

On the other hand, if you buy 5 small-run Spydercos and hold them in perfect condition for 10 years, you will likely get a winner out of at least one of them, and likely get a return of some kind on the others.
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Yes, but the market for such knives seems to be a more what is the current, newest model .... Remember the Poliwog ? The Volpe? The Spyker?? Well the interest only lasts till the next new thing.

But the truest saying is Buy what you like. If it goes up in value great, if it does not .... who cares you still like it. :))

peace out :thumbup:
 
Busse for one.:)

More expensive and sort of apples to oranges for sure - but they have quite a market right now. And use is encouraged!
 
TurnerIII said:
Busse for one.:)

More expensive and sort of apples to oranges for sure - but they have quite a market right now. And use is encouraged!
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Not to knock Busse knives or collectors in any way, but I seem to recall seeing more that a few Busse knives listed in the Exchange being offered for less that the seller claimed to have paid, and going through multiple price reductions before finding a new owner. I also find it very difficult to believe that, given two identical Busse knives, one dead mint, the other battle scarred, that the first would not fetch more than the second (unless the scars were earned digging Saddam out of his spider hole or something like that). It seems to go against human nature, and I also recall more than one thread in GBU where the recipient of a Busse took an extremely dim view of a scratch or scratches they felt had not been properly described.

Aside from that, yes, there are certain very limited production "brands" with a mystique about them.The keys seem to be very limited production, and tons of variations within those, so every knife is perceived as somewhat unique. Randall would probably be the first to come to my mind. But even in Randalls condition does play some role in determining value.
 
What I am finding when tradeing Spyders is that they tend to run in Cycles. Let me give you an example. About 18 months ago I had 3 Ronins that I couldn't hardly even give away. I also had 3 limited edition Gray Goddard models that I couldn't get any replies on when I tried to trade them. OK fast forward to this last fall.

I have traded those Ronins in the last 2 months. The knives I got in return were great. But keep in mind that 18 months ago I couldn't hardly get anyone to offer more than $20 to $30 for one :confused: Also those Gray Goddard models were like an Albatross around my neck. I thought I would be stuck with them forever. Last summer I had a guy contact me that I hadn't heard from in a while. He asked me if I still had any Gray Goddards>> I ended up with a colossal trade and traded all 3 of them for 2 knives that I still have in my collection.

Also I have seen red hot Spyders that go cold for what ever reason. I just tried to sell one of my G-10 Harpys on Ebay and didn't get one bid. Whereas just 2 months ago I saw one fetch $155. Spyders do run in cycles. Just be patient. I can remember when you couldn't hardly even give away any Spyderco Trainer. Well go try to find a Gunting trainer.> even if you find one you are going to have to shell out some big bucks to get one. The Spyder market is a constantly changing one. I will admit that I've never collected any other brand that fluctuates in price like a lot of Spyders do.
 
Good points guys. And to each his own.

But again - buy them because YOU like them - not because someone else is hyping them. ;)

T3
 
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