Holey cow!

[thombrogan]

The Benchmade 630 is now shipping. Has anything been settled amongst old friends and new designers?

 

[glockman99]

Dang...So Tim and Ernie got together and made a knife?? I'm going to ask Tim about this next time I see him..

 

[neetones]

so.....we need pictures.

Nitin

 

[thombrogan]

I should've been more direct and less sarcastic. I was referring to Benchmade's 630 Skirmish. To some, it couldn't be anything other than a Blackwood. To others, it's an unintentional homage to other great designers.

 

[TedV]

thombrogan, did you see a final production model?
I handled a proto at the IWA and it had 3 holes. I heard that the final production will have 4 holes. Are they still round?

Thanks,
Ted

 

[4 s ter]

Ted

Yes, they are still round.

http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.asp?model=630

They were obviously more concerned about not infringing on Ken Onion's trademark than Spyderco's.

 

[Easyrider]

Ted
They were obviously more concerned about not infringing on Ken Onion's trademark than Spyderco's.

That certainly seems to be the case.

 

[Morgoth412]

I think I read a post by Sal saying they worried more about Kershaws reaction becuase they are a larger company then Spyderco. (I might be totally off, but I think thats what he said.)
-Kevin

 

[Ken Cox]

The extra holes strike me as an ineffective attempt to conceal the Spyder hole.
I would like the aesthetics of the knife much more if they would just have used the Spyder hole.
Something about this strikes me as really unwholesome and deceitful, whether BM intended it as a prevarication or not.
It occurs to me that I own several Spyderco knives and not one BM knife, probably for a reason.

 

[Vess]

You know, when I was looking at this knife several things immediately jumped out at me. The knife really reminds me of three knives: Spyderco Centofante III, Sebenza and Emerson Commander.

First, the blade looks so very much like Spydie Centofante III. Just a little curve of the edge like on the Emerson Commander, and more holes. The textured thumbrest, the main hole and the tip shape are all the same like Centofante III. Then the front of the handle near the pivot looks like a Sebenza. And the rest of the handle is like the Emerson Commander series. Maybe it was their intention, but to me it looks like something pieced together from existing knives.

But it is a pretty big knife too, blade over 4"... Dunno.

 

[DumboRAT]

Vess,

The design of the knife was not pieced together -- it is nearly a direct translation of Neil Blackwood's custom Skirmish design.

Allen
aka DumboRAT

 

[Vess]

Allen,

I'm sorry if what I said sounded wrong. I wasn't really suggesting that the knife was a total ripoff of the available models. I know it is not. I actually saw Neil's website and the three-hole Skirmish a while ago, but at the time didn't have much exposure to the Sebenza, Centofante and the Commander. But I just acquired all three of the above knives over the past month or so, and when I saw the Skirmish again the similarities just jumped out at me, that's all. I know many knives look alike, and the the Skirmish is Neil's design and that is all, I was just wondering if someone else saw the same thing I did.

Oh, and when I said that the blade is over 4" and all that, I actually meant that I might end up buying one. Can't beat 4.3" of S30V attached to a Titanium handle... I just wish we could all sort out that business about the whole "holey cow" issue with the opening hole.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

The 630 looks like a sweet knife. I'll probably pick one up as I have never owned a frame lock.

 

[DumboRAT]

V -

NP.

I am of the thought that depending on one's exposure and experiences, certain knives can well "look like" works by others -- there's the old saying of "nothing new under the sun," and I truly think that this saying has some merit, no matter where one looks.

My addiction to knives truly flared up about a year and a half ago, going from a then long-time carried Spyderco-Viele to other Spydercos to Benchmades to Emersons (and yes, the Commander was among them) to Striders, and then, out of the blue, to Neil's works.

Do I see elements of other knife designs in Neil's work?

Certainly.

But that's also to say that I see the same basic elements of design in *_all_* other knives.

I appreciate Neil's works as unique and original pieces because they are of a distinctly recognizeable overall aesthetic style and construct - and that each provide genuinely unique feel.

To me, the Skirmish/630 may look like certain other knives when design elements are taken apart and examined individually or when its overall size/perspective is distorted, but as a whole, it remains, I believe, a unique knife.

With respect to the "hole(s)?"

That, I will kindly defer to the parties involved - Mr. Glesser/Spyderco, Mr. deAsis/Benchmade, and Mr. Blackwood - to figure out in a forum of true authority.

Allen
aka DumboRAT

 

[4 s ter]

Allen/DumboRat

One "Forum" I'm sure they are concerned about is the one represented here - knife buyers. The legal system will move much slower than the court of public opinion. End users still have the "authority" to buy products from the company of their choice.

Ever wonder what peoples reaction would be if a knife manufacturing company infringed upon the trademark of a favored knifemaker. Just watch the Forums whenever some Chinese manufaturer produces a rip-off of a well known design from a North American maker.

I just can't figure out why so many people feel that infringing on Spyderco's trademark is OK in this instance

 

[thombrogan]

I just can't figure out why so many people feel that infringing on Spyderco's trademark is OK in this instance

Could be because Blackwood didn't infringe on purpose whereas you can look at a $7 Emerson kerambit ripoff and see even the wave used without shame. Could be because the knife is so cool looking that most of us don't want to notice.

 

[4 s ter]

Thombrogan

Since there is no thumbstud the round opening hole has to be the intended opening method. I would consider this infringement on purpose. Purpose isn't really the issue, trademark is an appearance issue and the hole is round.

Just a question - is a cheap, poorly made rip-off more unacceptable than an expensive, well made one?

I agree with your second statement however, people want it so they are willing to overlook the infringement. I wonder if someone copied an equally famous makers trademark and put it on their own knife if people would be so forgiving. I could give a few examples, but won't - there's no need to bring uninvolved parties into the discussion.

I'm not trying to start arguements here, but I find the duplicity of some people on the subject of trademark infringement puzzling. (Then again, maybe nothing should be surprizing in this day and age ).

David

 

[sheltot]

So, is Ed Brown infringing with this?

I'd seen it on his guns for while, but I was shocked to see it on the Calypso Jr. I got awhile back.

 

[thombrogan]

4 s ter,

My <bleep/> isn't clean on this subject. Had they made the Benchmade version available as a lefty, I'd probably have been a tight-lipped hypocrite. Maybe not; I don't know. What I do know is that I've been craving Spydercos and Himalayan Import khukuris and slowly trying to trade away my Benchmades.

Sheltot,

I don't believe that Spyderco trademarked the fishscale pattern, though they did use it on the first bidirectional textured knife handles out there.

 

[glockman99]

...What I do know is that I've been craving Spydercos...and slowly trying to trade away my Benchmades.

I have 3 Spydies that I'm looking to trade-off...What 'cha got in the way of Benchmades?...