Holy COW! Using the Sharpmaker BACKWARDS!!!

[Dog of War]

I can't see any advantage to doing it this way (relief after finished edge) and agree with Cliff that you risk damaging your finished edge.

 

[Lavan]

I use only white stones. Unless the knife is ....DULL. But, being a knife knut, I seldom ...dull... a knife.
Whether from heading for a "beater" for grunt work or just frequent changing of knives, I am usually restoring a slightly used edge.
Which MAY explain why the method seems to work so well.
I could see damaging the edge if I had to remove a LOT of metal to really SHARPEN a dull edge.

 

[Lavan]

I have a "test" I use on freshly sharpened blades. I have a ridge of callus just in front of the fingernail and if I can simply ...push... the knife through that and it just peels off with no sawing motion whatsoever, the knife is sharp!
What amazed me so much about Esav's suggestion was how easily it worked out on a fully serrated Delica.
Usually, I sharpen ...EACH.... crescent cutout separately even though the video show treating it like a plain edge.
The 40 degree first method allowed me to just do the motions like the video and still come out with scary sharp.
But the Delica is a chisel grind also and that may affect the method.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

So you're saying it is better to grind the relief angle BEFORE I sharpen at 40*, right?

Yes, this thins the edge and makes application of the final bevel much more efficient. If you really want to see something dramatic try applying a final bevel of 20 degrees on a 5 degree primary. With that much of a relef grind even S30V grinds trivially.

Usually, I sharpen ...EACH.... crescent cutout separately even though the video show treating it like a plain edge.
The 40 degree first method allowed me to just do the motions like the video and still come out with scary sharp.

I don't see why the order of relief/primary has anything to do with scallops vs full pass. You generally only need to hone the individual scallops if they are damaged, or simply too small to fit in the sharpmaker.

I can't see any advantage to doing it this way ...

Placebo effect is real and can be very strong. There are some knives that I sharpen consistently easily to a very high standard simply because I am comfortable with them and "know" I will be able to do it.

The toothier edge will still push cut and slice, right? How long do you use the gray stones after putting the final edge on it? I'm assuming you alternate sides every stroke, right?

As the edge gets more coarse you lose push cutting ability and in general gain slicing ability, how much of each depends on the specific media. To coarsen an edge which is already sharp and you are just micro-beveling would be instant as in -1-2 passes and yes you would be alternating each side and going *very* light.

I am assuming that I am not consistent on the final grind (after the recommended relief grind) and by doing it this backwards way, I am compensating for sloppiness by possibly ADDING a small portion of the edge at a steeper angle but only where the edge was uneven to begin with.

If your secondary bevel is uneven then trying to even it out by randomally hitting it on occasion as you do a relief grind is going to take awhile. How long would it take for example to sharpen a worn 20 degree micro using the 15 degree relief bevels. You would likely actually just grind the micro off first.

Why does it work? I don't see any reason why it should aside from the fact that you think it will. However if it does work better for you then that is all that matters. This isn't a new idea, it was discussed on Bladeforums years ago. Most ideas of sharpening and issues with knives are like this though.

-Cliff

 

[bbcmat]

I'll cut the relief grind after true(ing) up the primary grind IF I need to remove a lot of material on nice symmetrically ground blade. The semi-finished edge grind gives me a reference point to grind up to, and allows me to pull back the relief angle without a big floppy burr that is cut off (and wasted) with a steeper edge grind. Final step is to go back to the edge grind an do final touch up/set to desired finish.

After a while, keeping the job “pretty” is a nice reward too - IMO – because being sharp is a given.


MAT

 

[Dog of War]

Placebo effect is real and can be very strong.

You'd make a great diplomat if you put your mind to it, Cliff ..... though I doubt it's in your nature, any more than it is in mine

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I'll cut the relief grind after true(ing) up the primary grind IF I need to remove a lot of material on nice symmetrically ground blade.

I rework the edge first on some blades which are heavily damaged or are otherwise changing the profile. I generally don't actually sharpen them though as much as just get them to the right shape, often grinding into the edge perpendicular for reasons as you noted I follow the edge on the belt when doing the relief.

You don't need to take the relief grind right down to the edge and lose all that metal as the coarse finish tears into the edge. In his origional articles Joe recommended leaving a bit of the edge at the origional angle. For heavier tactical blades this is generally how they should be cut, for most actual cutting knives though you only need a micro-bevel.

You'd make a great diplomat...

Yes, not with the traditional goal of such however.

-Cliff

 

[hara-kiri-yogi]

Yes, not with the traditional goal of such however.

-Cliff

Cliff, you seem to have an interest in accurate, fact-based perception of reality... (as i inappropriately and wrecklessly plunge into very deep water) I can't help but wonder where you are at politically...:foot:
*gulp*

 

[Dog of War]

You'd make a great diplomat if you put your mind to it, Cliff ..... though I doubt it's in your nature, any more than it is in mine

Yes, not with the traditional goal of such however.

Roosevelt was my kind of statesman ..... Teddy, that is. If I were Canadian, I think you might get my vote.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...you seem to have an interest in accurate, fact-based perception of reality...

For general day to day living yes, I prefer objective vs subjective reality. I prefer fantasy on screen or in books. There are enough people in the knife industry who spin imaginative tales of wonder and intrigue and sheep who follow them, it doesn't need more of either.

-Cliff