Home defense?

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Triton:
I think you all are misunderstanding Rob's intent. He isn't saying that a sword shouldn't be used as a weapon, he is saying that buying one specifically to use it as a weapon in this day and age is kind of silly. It smacks of Highlanderwannabeism. Buy swords because you are a martial artist, buy swords because you are an art collector, buy swords because you like to chop things up, buy swords because you just like sharp pointy things but buy guns to defend yourself with.</font>
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Triton,

With respect, please let Mr. Marotz speak for himself. A lot of the times people have attempted to speak for Mr. Marotz and Mr. Marotz himself has refuted that the well-intentioned individual's assertion that they are of "like" minds.

I read every post Mr. Marotz posted in BF to get a better idea of what he's said and what he's "brought to the table". To be sure, he's a real information source but I also see a lot elitist attitude too. Teachers (a position that Mr. Marotz finds himself in as Moderator and a remarkable source of knowledge) should teach valuable information, not kill the desire to learn in the first place.

I first encountered the idea of using a sword for home defense from one of Marc MacYoung's books. Basically the appeal was 1)Swords do not jam, they are reliable 2)It is somewhat easier to intentionally main or "discourage" and at the same time harder to accidentally kill with sword compared to a firearm. Less of this "I meant to shoot him in the arm but ended up shooting him in the lung instead."

I am learning Silat and I am constantly reminded of stories about how some kriss type weapons are haunted with the spirits of their former owners. I asked my Jagabaya about it and he said that as long as you respect the weapon then you have nothing to worry about. No one that posted in this thread said,"The first thing I'm gonna do with the sword is abuse it and do silly crap with it."

All that being said, I am still curious if Mr. Marotz will comment.

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"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child.", King Lear, Act I, Scene 4.
 
I agree, I wouldn't expect it either. He is not going to change Mr. Fulton's mind nor Mr. Rearic's. His opinion differs from theirs, that is apparent enough in what has already been posted.

I have no problem with differing opinions at all, but gee whiz Don, lighten up. You thought Mr. Marotz's post was disrespectful... go back and read yours.

I'm not going to speak for him, but I will offer you this. If I had posted what he did, and you respectfully asked me to clarify what I meant, I would gladly do so. But if I came back in and read what you actually posted above, I would simply shake my head and go on to another topic. No constructive conversation can take place with that kind of hostility. Even if he does come in and clarify, what are the odds that you two are not going to make an argumentative post right after that?

Gentlemen, I respect your opinions as differing from that of Mr. Marotz. But I don't think it is going to get very constructive from here on out, simply because of the tone you have given to the discussion.

And Paranoid, e-mail me some time. I'll share with you a Kris from the Phillipines that I'd BET has the spirits of a few owners in there.
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I suspect we've heard the last that Robert has to say on this subject for now, and I can't find any fault in that.

paranoid9999,

I haven't read The Animal's comments on swords, but I have to say, when I hear comments like,
"It is somewhat easier to intentionally main or "discourage" and at the same time harder to accidentally kill with sword compared to a firearm. Less of this "I meant to shoot him in the arm but ended up shooting him in the lung instead."

I have to wonder.
I've been live steel fencing for some time now, and have something like 25 wins out of my last 30 bouts and I can PROMISE you, that often times, the hit you get is not the hit you were going for. In a true dueling scenario, (not formalized fencing) with both participants moving constantly, ducking, weaving, parrying, and manuvering for the advantage, you often go for one hit, but carry the blow in such a manner that you can at least acheive a secondary blow if your primary fails. If I'm going for an arm, the only reason for doing so, is that my opponent is good enough that I don't feel I can get the chest shot without taking his arm away from him first.
If the other gentleman is slow that day, or gives me an opening, I'll go straight for the kill, but that doesn't happen all that often.


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 
Triton said:

"... he is saying that buying one specifically to use it as a weapon in this day and age is kind of silly. It smacks of Highlanderwannabeism. ... but buy guns to defend yourself with."

My response:

Well, I used to have a couple of guns (a Colt Officer's Model .45 ACP and a Remington 870 pump action 12 gauge in 3" magnum), but I sold them. They scared the crap out of my wife (even more so now that we have kids) and I love her and my kids more than anything, so I sold them. Besides, I hardly ever had time to shoot anymore due to work, family, MA's training, etc; I couldn't get a CCW for the .45; and because I like swords/knives better than guns anyway (and needed the money to buy a sword).
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Although I do occasionally watch Highlander (for a good laugh and those times when you need mental downtime), I find the implication of your comment about "Highlanderwannabeism" insulting.

Paranoid9999 said:

"Teachers (a position that Mr. Marotz finds himself in as Moderator and a remarkable source of knowledge) should teach valuable information"

My response:

I'd like to know how he got to be a moderator (sheesh) and what he qualifies as a "teacher".

and Velitrius said:

"If I had posted what he did, and you respectfully asked me to clarify what I meant, I would gladly do so. But if I came back in and read what you actually posted above, I would simply shake my head and go on to another topic. No constructive conversation can take place with that kind of hostility. Even if he does come in and clarify, what are the odds that you two are not going to make an argumentative post right after that?

Gentlemen, I respect your opinions as differing from that of Mr. Marotz. But I don't think it is going to get very constructive from here on out, simply because of the tone you have given to the discussion."

My response:

I'm going to respond to the last paragraph first. Go back and read his two very condescending posts at the very beginning of this thread again. This thread was doomed not to be constructive from the very beginning, because of the tone that HE interjected.

Now the first paragraph. There was no hostility intended in my FIRST post. I call 'em like I see 'em and I saw a whole load of BS in his posts, so I called him on it. My wife says I need to learn to be "PC", to which I say "Why would I want to be a personal computer?"
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I don't need for him to clarify his comments ... they're crystal clear to me.

However, what I would like for Mr. Marotz to clarify is his training background in terms of his study of swords, swordsmanship and Martial Arts in general. I mean, he acts like a leading authority from the way the posts and several of you all have refered to him as knowledgeable, but quite frankly his comments just don't bear that out. Of course, it may be that I've just taken too many hard shots and falls over the years.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton





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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
 
Yeah, well, I'm offended.

Oh yeah? Well I'm offended at your offense!

Yeah? I'm offended that you got offended that I was offended when you insulted me for insulting you!

Nyah nyah nyah!

Seriously, let's all back away slowly and take a few deep breaths. These forums would be poorer if everyone with whom we disagreed never posted.
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-Razor

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AKTI #A000845

[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 06-06-2001).]
 
However, what I would like for Mr. Marotz to clarify is his training background in terms of his study of swords, swordsmanship and Martial Arts in general. I mean, he acts like a leading authority from the way the posts and several of you all have refered to him as knowledgeable, but quite frankly his comments just don't bear that out. Of course, it may be that I've just taken too many hard shots and falls over the years.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton

For what I understand, Mr. Marotz is a teenager who has read a lot of books on Japanese swords. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but how that could possibly qualify him as someone who could lecture us on the practical and moral aspects of home defense is beyond me.

Leo




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"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
I have had more than a few conversations with Bob, and any time something turns to Self-defense regarding an edged weapon, he becomes the Protectionist. The Defender of The Realm.

Bob does have a vast amount of knowledge regarding terminology and whatnot, I have also witnessed him arguing with someone in a chatroom about the use of a sword and the fellow he was arguing with has actually been to Japan to study with Hatsumi Sensei [or one of his Juniors, still awesome]. That is beyond the line of ludicrous IMHO.

That's infantile. Just like he was in the first part of this thread, as I pointed out.

Bob is a smart young man, and he has potential, but what a smart young man with Protectionist Motives "condones" is about as meaningless as a cobweb in the Real World.



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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
The way I see it is, When a gun is used as a defensive weapon, some news report will say the gun is bad and show it in a bad light, knives are the same way right? Well, if swords start getting attention, it will sooner than not become negative attention. "Local man decapitates intruder" type headline will start to spring up and the next thing you know, we'll have all kinds of assault-sword bans and legislation.

It's very hard to ban a bat, since it is used in a sport.

Anytime something is in a harmful manner on anyone, the media rushes in to tell people what they should think. I don't want to be told that swords cause xx number of deaths each year and that they should be banned because we would be safer without them.

 
This thread has wandered from it's original purpose as a discussion of the Sword as Self Defense Tool, to a discussion of Robert's merits as a Moderator and a Human in general.

It's time to lock the thread.


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 
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