Homeless People

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BuraFan

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I hesitated to post this. But, decided to post it anyway. I heared some men at work today talking about homless people and about how they needed to get a job & stop begging.

In the same breath they were claiming to be Christians and telling each other how good they were.

I just told them seems like If I remember right; Jesus was homeless. And walked away.

What do you think?
 
Being homeless is one of my biggest nightmares. After knowing many homeless, the line between homelessness and working with a roof over your head is not as big as some would think. The scariest is the working homeless, people with jobs, but who still cant afford to find a place to stay in an expensive city with a housing shortage. What those guys really need to do is talk to some homeless guys, they may find out they have more in common that they thought. Anyways, I loved your response to them Burafan.
 
While I do have a strong work ethic and believe in personal responsibility and pulling oneself up (having done so) I really cringe at the popular habit of despising the homeless. Sure a lot are unsavory, but I always think "There but for the grace of God go I" ... your response to those fellows was perfect.
 
The average American is only one or two paychecks away from being homeless. It is also one of my biggest fears.
The homeless that I do not feel pity for are the ones that are homeless on purpose. Either because they are running/hiding from something, or because they DO NOT want to work.
Here in the Denver Metro area, we have some fake homeless. One of the TV stations did an undercover story on this. Seems that some of the panhandlers on the corner were making upwards of $400 a day, 5 days a week. Tax free. At the end of the day, they would walk 2-5 blocks away from "their" corner, and climb into a brand new car, then drive home to a Govt subsidised apartment/house. Once a month they would collect their welfare check, and were on food stamps.
 
Well, never met the guy, but he seemed to travel around a lot. I'd call him more "nomadic" than " homeless."

Keith
 
I think Jesus said that it would be fair to ask that people give you a place to sleep and food to eat in return for teaching and healing, but only for a few days.
I believe that's how he and the disciples did things.
 
There is a difference between being "homeless" and not living in a house. Many people who prefer a nomadic or mobile lifestyle have their home in their Soul and their shelter is what God provides.

There was a period in my life when I chose to live that way. I was not down and out, and I was not a bum. I considered myself more of a wandering monk on a spiritual quest. During that period I was the strongest and most self reliant I have ever been. I felt that I was truly blessed.

I'm not saying that the bums and winos with the "homeless-help me" signs are in that category, I'm just making the point that not living in a house does not necessarily make one homeless.
 
Ben Arown-Awile said:
I'm not saying that the bums and winos with the "homeless-help me" signs are in that category, I'm just making the point that not living in a house does not necessarily make one homeless.

Extremely good point. Remember.....a house is not a home. And it can happen to most anyone (not Ted Turner, probably, but certainly Martha Stewart)

Had it not been for a very benevolent landlord, with whom I've become very good friends in the last three years, I'd have been homeless 5 months ago, after some serious medical problems. I'm very far behind in rent but trying to catch up......and that's what counts......he knows I'm...."good for it".
 
I think you should stop baiting the HI Forum with subjects like this which are totally unrelated to the subject at hand, and stick with khukuri talk. Having said that, since you asked, I'll take your bait. Just remember, I didn’t initiate this, and I am perfectly content to stick with khukuri talk only. This thread is destined to be locked because it provokes people like me to write what I'm about to write.

I think there's a HUGE difference between the type of "homeless" person Jesus was and the type we are plagued with today. I may be wrong, but I don't think Jesus went around hitting people up for money, refusing to work, expecting handouts or to live off of other people, and lying through his teeth with some made up tearjerk hard luck tale about how he lost his job after 28 years, his wife & little kids are hungry, and they were on their way to some other state to look for work or visit relatives when they ran out of gas, all through no fault of his own. I've heard slight variations of this BS story countless times. How does the verse in 2 Thessalonians 3:10 fit into your one-sided and rather naive concept of Christian charity? If you wanted to draw a parallel between the "homeless" people of today and Christians, then you should have chosen televangelists like Bob "Prayer Rag" Tilton as your example, who make a living fleecing suckers in the name of God, rather than smearing Christ's name and reputation by associating Him with today's "homeless." How dare you. Do you not hold Christ in any higher regard than that? Perhaps I should judge you and your level of Christianity by your comments here just as you have judged your coworkers by theirs.

Lastly, you desperately need to distinguish between the true "homeless" and bums, and not use the term "homeless" so indiscriminately. I think you already know this but everyone needs to hear this again and again until we have freed our minds from this subtle but twisted way of thinking and speaking. The label of "homeless" is neutral, carrying with it no negative or critical implications. When you use the term "homeless," you are telling your listeners that you are reserving any judgment of right and wrong.

The term "bum" presumes a state of homelessness, so to call a bum "homeless" is unnecessary and incomplete--it makes you sound very sensitive and PC but it is intellectually dishonest speech because it does not tell the whole story. "Bum" means more than just homeless; it means homeless by choice rather than by a series of misfortunes (despite what they would have you believe), and it describes a person who "bums" off of other people (hence the name). They are the parasites of society.

For example, a mother and full time housewife who's husband ran off with his mistress, leaving her with the children to take care of and no source of income, would truly classify as "homeless". A person who chooses to live under an overpass while the local churches supply him with coats, blankets, canned food, and kerosene out of charity, pity, or a works mentality, who holds a sign saying "will work for food," but when offered a job for the day, refuses on the grounds that "I've got a bad back" or more honestly, "I can make more money just standing here taking handouts", has fully earned the title of "bum" and should not be denied it; he should be called what he is. When you indiscriminately lump the former together with the latter by referring to all of them as “homeless,” you are actually telling your listeners that the deadbeat who refuses to earn his way through life is the moral equivalent of the person who actually has suffered genuine setbacks but who desires and is trying to recover. To associate the former with the latter is an insult to the truly homeless everywhere, who are in genuine need of and deserving of our help and compassion. Bums are not. The reason no one feels comfortable using the term “bum” anymore is because the PC counterculture which has dominated our popular culture has purposefully caused us to subconsciously feel ashamed to use words like that which carry implied connotations of disapproval.

I should also point out that in my real life example above of a “bum,” the churches who support him in that way are aiding and abetting him to continue in that lifestyle, which he has chosen for himself. They are helping him to escape the consequences of his actions (or lack thereof), and thus they are doing him a disservice by helping him to avoid reality. These churches are undermining the ancient biblical maxim of 2 Thessalonians 3:10 which, when implemented by Captain John Smith, became the turning point for the colony of Jamestown and the foundational ethic of this nation: “He who will not work shall not eat.” Paradoxically, this maxim actually saved the colony from starvation, rather than causing it. Perhaps “no work = no eat” is the true soul of compassion, rather than “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs”, which we see practiced every day by the do-gooders on the street corners and by the government on our paychecks.

Just in case you’re a Christian, the Bible makes a clear and consistent distinction between the bums described in 1 Timothy 5:8 and the true homeless such as the orphans and widows. It also has a lot to say about freeloaders and bums—and it isn’t nice or flattering. Compassion is an indispensable trait of humanity; misplaced compassion is actually harmful, as I have explained.

You said you hesitated to post this thread but decided to post it anyway. Next time go with your first instinct; it was trying to warn you.
 
... I thought "bum" came from their sitting on their bums all day.

Any ways, yes the bible does make a distinction between bums and homeless. Yes there is a distinction between the guy standing on the corner with a sign saying "God bless" and the guy going around town trying to get a job along side illegal immagrants.

Remember that there are "christians" out there that go to church, do all the motions, and aren't actually christians. Certain denominations thrive this way. I have a feeling that several people on this forum have had prior dealings with these people. Also I have learned not to assume that any one on this forum is christian. I believe that the majority (at least at HI, I have not ventured out of the cantina much) are not.

I believe that Jesus didn't so much as trade teaching and healing for food and shelter, but people took him in either due to reputation, or kindness. Jesus also didn't overstay his welcome and start raiding coin purses, or food reserves.

The way you (X-Head) describe the guy under the bridge is fairly accurate. By simply giving him things he needs they are supporting his lifestyle. If they really wanted to help him they would help him get a job. If he won't take it then cut him off. There are shelters all over the place with employment agencies practicly built in and they still don't get any customers. It is easy enough for true homeless to get a job and get back on their feet.

edit: BTW the phrase "What does this have to do with khukuris? everything." comes to mind.
OT posts are plenty welcome here as long as they aren't trolling, or direct flaming (please add any additional parameters). And when you say "people like me" I picture some one that has a chip on his shoulder/enjoys angry rants/has been or has a friend how is homeless and is overly sensative.
 
"I believe that Jesus didn't so much as trade teaching and healing for food and shelter "

Well, He did actually say that. Its in the bible.
I cant give you the verse, but Jesus actually said to do this.
"a worker deserves his wages" or something like that.
 
I'm interested in the context of that. DIJ if you could give me a place to start I will look around. All I could find with a quick search was Ecclesiasticus 34:22

"To rob your neighbour of his livelihood is to kill him, and the man who cheats a worker of his wages sheds blood"
 
I'm surprised no one has brought this point up, but all this sactimonious talk about homeless people is moot. Bums are bums for 2 reasons. They either have substance abuse problems or are mentally ill. Thats it. End of discussion. They are exactly like everyone else except in this regard, no lazier or more morally corrupt. Stories about crafty people fleecing the charitable sounds great but is totally different from the real homeless issue. Talk to someone who hits you up for money and you will find they ALWAYS have one or both of these problems. This is why it is so hard for people to understand why they don't "just get a job". Their addiction makes dignity a low priority. If the best way to get booze and stay drunk was to get a normal job, they would get a job. As it stands the most efficient, least complicated way is to beg and they do what anyone else would do to get what they need.

And personally I think homeless Jesus falls into catagory #2... :D
 
Yoippari, Im sorry I dont know offhand.
I got it from a recent study of Jesus I did and we looked at a lot of material.
I believe it was in the same section as bringing only a walking stick and sandals, or something like that...
 
X-Head said:
I think you should stop baiting the HI Forum with subjects like this which are totally unrelated to the subject at hand, and stick with khukuri talk.
Good point. Next it will be what do we think about abortion, gun control, or his exploits in the Delta teams. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: BF why not post this stuff in Community or, better yet, Whine & Cheese. I'm sure there are few folks there who would love to comment.
 
I agree with Semp on posting these things over on the community or whine and cheese....although for some reason I can't find whine and cheese. It's lost in the dark abyss of my computer box.

With that said the verse you are refering to is found in Luke 10. You have to read the whole chapter to get the context and it is particularily vs. 7.
 
interesting discussion - hasn't reached an elevated tone yet.....if everybody can keep a level head, then no need to move it.

How many of you know actually know homeless people? I do. Most of the ones I knew chose that lifestyle on purpose. Rage against the machine, IYKWIM. Anti-work types that at one point had potential, but decided against it. Yes, I know they are often druggies and boozers too, but "suddenly becoming homeless" is not their situtation, and not a fear of mine.

I have chosen the path I'm on. I still have family around. I worry more about being a greedy, selfish, prejudiced snob, then I worry about becoming homeless. If I still had my family with me, I would have no problem living in a cardboard box. Now, my wife, on the other hand.....might take objection to it...:D.....

....just remembered that we talked about this a while back when I was "in between jobs". I asked her what would she do if we ended up out on the street. She said "Well, it would sure cut down on the housework I have to do."

!:eek:


What a lady. ;)
 
Most of the gypsy people I know don't beg.

Most of the truly homeless I know all have problems. Mental illness, substance abuse problems. Screwed up upbringing. Some just can't take care of themselves. Nobody has ever taught them how to be at a certain place at a certain time, balance a checkbook,take orders from others without gettin mad, or make a budget. Some people you can give them a hand up and they will prosper. Some not.

I think one of the hardest things for people to do when they help less fortunate people is to do it without expectations, expectations that the people they help are going to eventually help themselves, improve their life, or even be grateful to the person helping them.

In the bible Jesus went around helping people. Yet the people he went to help ended up either abandoning him or outright participating in his demise.

One of the things he said was that anyone who took up his way of life had to be willing to bear the cross he bore. What he meant by that in my not so learned opinion is not that we would all be crucified or martyred, but that anytime you get down there and get close enough to help people, the chances that they will somehow do you wrong or betray you or be unthankful are very good, and that you shouldn't expect any earthly reward for good deeds to the less fortunate, but that you should still do them.

Just my opinion.
 
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