Hones vs stones.

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Well I've been useing ceramic, diamond, and water stones for a few years now. Water stones cut quickly and are available in a wide range of grits. However, if I had to buy a new set of sharpening stuff with what I know now I'd get Diamond for everything 1200 grit and under and ceramics for higher grits. For some reason I really prefer the feedback I get from fine ceramic over waterstones, and ceramic is alot cleaner too. My water stones are great for polishing those large bevels but I seem to get a better edge right at the very edge with the ceramic. Anyone else prefer diamonds and ceramic over the water stones?
 
That's about how I feel about it, I like water stones for the level of polish and eveness in the finish but I like ceramics for the unbeatable level of sharpness. The UF spyderco ceramic is about the best sharpening tool a crazy polished edge knifenut can ask for. :D
 
db said:
Well I've been useing ceramic, diamond, and water stones for a few years now. Water stones cut quickly and are available in a wide range of grits. However, if I had to buy a new set of sharpening stuff with what I know now I'd get Diamond for everything 1200 grit and under and ceramics for higher grits. For some reason I really prefer the feedback I get from fine ceramic over waterstones, and ceramic is alot cleaner too. My water stones are great for polishing those large bevels but I seem to get a better edge right at the very edge with the ceramic. Anyone else prefer diamonds and ceramic over the water stones?
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I'm with you, Bill. I like diamonds for the actual sharpening (getting to the edge), and ceramics for the finishing.

I may not be nearly as fixated as many here but it works for me.
 
I still like working my carbon steel and low alloy stainless blades on a Norton medium India benchstone, then finishing with fine ceramic for the microbevel. Something about the feel of blade steel on an India stone just pleases me :D and the finish quality is excellent for the grit/mesh.

Of course I use diamond hones for many things, but guess a part of me is still old school at heart....

Waterstones ... some of the woodworkers in my family are really into 'em, but I've never taken to them.
 
Where I prefer waterstones are for fine grit sharpening or refinishing.

When I refinish a surface (remove scratches or show hamon), I won't let a diamond plate near it - they will extend any blade refinishing longer than using stones or paper. They leave some scratches that will take an undue amount of work to remove every time.

I love the 600 DMT edge for a slicer, though. Most of the guys I sharpen for (old time hunters and a couple chefs) prefer this edge over the polished edge...
 
db said:
Well I've been useing ceramic, diamond, and water stones for a few years now. Water stones cut quickly and are available in a wide range of grits. However, if I had to buy a new set of sharpening stuff with what I know now I'd get Diamond for everything 1200 grit and under and ceramics for higher grits. For some reason I really prefer the feedback I get from fine ceramic over waterstones, and ceramic is alot cleaner too. My water stones are great for polishing those large bevels but I seem to get a better edge right at the very edge with the ceramic. Anyone else prefer diamonds and ceramic over the water stones?
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I really like not having to flatten stones, so this set up is my favorite.
 
knifenut1013 said:
DMT XX-fine= 3micron/8000
Spyderco UF ceramic= 3micron/8000
shapton glass stone= .49micron/30,000
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First, theres not a definative standard and some companies/people set or state what they want then quote w/o giving a reference. But in the thread, "Grit sizes" in this forum it give a couple of charts one w/ a reference credit.Which is close to what I remember looking up.But the figures above are well off from what I've read.DM
 
David Martin said:
First, theres not a definative standard and some companies/people set or state what they want then quote w/o giving a reference. But in the thread, "Grit sizes" in this forum it give a couple of charts one w/ a reference credit.Which is close to what I remember looking up.But the figures above are well off from what I've read.DM
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How do you figure?
 
Well, just read the charts posted they are fairly accurate.On any chart I've seen, 3 microns have never = 8000. Only 2000.The two charts do agree that x-fine diamond is about 800 and diamonds wear w/ use so could be around 900.EZ Lap labels their fine diamond at 600.Then XX fine diamond would be alittle higher than that at 1K.This makes more sense.DM
 
on the side of a DMT XX-fine it says 3micron/8000mesh a spyderco UF ceramic is known to be 3 microns and a shapton glass stone says it on the surface. I have also compared a DMT to a spyderco to a waterstone (8000 grit) and the finish of each stone is very close.
 
Yes, I'm aware it does say 8000"MESH" on the packaging.However,as I stated previously
3 microns does not match up to that?? From one X fine at 1200 to two X fine is 8000??
Quite the JUMP.Not likely.More likely its 2000 with a type o.DM
 
I have all of these stones and know very well the finish they produce. The XX-fine is much finer than 2000 mesh.


Do you have all these stones to make this assumption?
 
I like DMT's for coarse work and spyderco ceramics for finishing (or sub micron lapping film). My Shapton Glasstones cut fast and clean leaving more polished bevels than my ceramics, and they cut the super hard steels (66 RC M2, ZDP, Super Blue) better than ceramics which for me have sometimes burred and microchipped on ceramics (I probably was using too much pressure). Overall the great sharpness and convenience of the ceramics make them my favorite stones for all but a few steels. Sharpness wise I would agree a Spyderco UF is similar to a 8000 grit waterstone, but the polish my Shaptons leave is unreal if you are going for a super mirrored bevel. By 2000 grit they are a mirror, and 8000 grit just gleams. For whatever reason the ceramics don't quite get that shine, but they get knives real sharp. Like Broos I think a DMT red stone leaves a very good edge for slicing (it still catches hair above the arm nicely), but my OCD makes me polish my edges. I did just get a shipment from Tom Krein today and his 120 grit belt got tree topping sharpness with tremendous slicing aggression, that man can sharpen.

Mike
 
David Martin said:
db,I did'nt think diamond or ceramic gets up to 1200 grit.DM
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Personally my finest diamond is a DMT fine and I believe it is rated at about a 600 grit size. I then jump to ceramics and they are all much finer than the DMT fine. I’m not sure that Spyderco gives there ceramics a grit size rating but I’ve seen it reported and my own use of them agrees they produce finishes well above 1200 grit finishes. I’d guess a safe guess for a range of Spyderco hones could be around 1000 to 8000 ish depending on how you use them and level of wear.

David Martin said:
Yes, I'm aware it does say 8000"MESH" on the packaging.However,as I stated previously
3 microns does not match up to that?? From one X fine at 1200 to two X fine is 8000??
Quite the JUMP.Not likely.More likely its 2000 with a type o.DM
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I guess you found that the DMT X fine does indeed reach a 1200 grit size thanks. DMT doesn't really jump from X fine to XX fine they list there ceramic between the two. So the order is X fine then ceramic then XX fine. Note I have none of these hones.

Found a chart that may or may not help on the DMT web site. http://www.dmtsharp.com/products/colorcode.htm
 
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I've heard stories of the DMT XX fine not leaving edges as fine as an 8000 grit waterstone, even after break in. I believe my 8000 grit Shapton Glasstone says 1.84 micron. That difference in micron ratings could be the reason why the finishes are finer on the waterstones according to those that have tried both. My DMT's go up to 600 grit, and my ceramics and waterstones take over after that. For the stones I use those stones work just fine, but if I had S90V or S110V I might look for finer grit diamonds, but I just haven't needed it to get great edges on the steels I use.

Mike
 
db,Yes I've seen that chart and there in are the figures which don't match other charts.
Yes,I have some DMT stones and its not an assumption.One needs only to read their chart to see the microns don't match the "MESH" (what ever that is).Execpt in the silver and black.Those match other charts I've seen micron and grit.Knifenut don't take it personal, I'm not attacking you.Its an educational point.The information doesn't match.Were still free here to discuss items about knives w/o anyone dominating.
Ok, I see from reputable charts that ceramics do get finer than 1200 grit and diamond is up there some where. Is it 3 microns or 8000 grit? I can't say which is correct.But the DMT chart needs some reworking.DM
 
The term grit is thrown around loosely and it is very hard to get a correct measurement when everyone is using a differen chart. Using micron's as a measurement will give you more accuracy as there is only one size possable. All stones will also cut differently leaving different types of finishes for similar "grits" diamond stones for example will never yield the same finish as a waterstone because the abrasive particals are different in shape. The diamond stones particals being sharp and jagged and the waterstones being more round and smooth. The finish may appear different but the final edge sharpness is all pretty close, though each edge will cut differently in respect to what meida it was sharpened on.

I'm not taking it personal I just know better.
 
I see.Using your own defination of microns being more accurate. I'll allow the XX fine DMT
as being at 2000 grit. This is such an open and educational posting...DM
 
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