Horn 'o' Plenty!? (faux or genuine) - Any more examples?

[meako]

I reckon baleen and horn are both hair based. Never would have imagined it used as knife handle. Wow.

 

[Jack Black]

Jack do you think Blakes is real horn or hornite (syntho horn)?

"Hornite"! You should TM that Meako :thumbup: Hard to say. It reminds me of this IXL I picked up recently, which I think, upon reflection, is also probably synthetic.



I picked up 3 of these Saynor Lambsfoot knives a couple of years back, sent Charlie and Duncan one each, but I think that what I took for horn was actually synthetic (credit for this should go to Duncan).

Always a treat to see your work Dave :thumbup:

To tell for sure, poke the handle with a red hot pin (in the end where it will barely show).
You must create a quick puff of smoke! Burning plastic is usually distinct in odor!
Horn smells like singed hair!

Virtually every other Ivory/French Ivory penknife I pick up has been poked with a hot pin! :thumbup:

 

[ChrisJM]

Buffalo horn handle.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Will Power]

Nice looking knife, Blake!
It does look like a synthetic I have owned.
To tell for sure, poke the handle with a red hot pin (in the end where it will barely show).
You must create a quick puff of smoke! Burning plastic is usually distinct in odor!
Horn smells like singed hair!

Right! It has rather regular stripes which likely mean synthetic. However, it's still a very attractive and worthwhile knife.:thumbup:

Another Horn Test that's not to be recommended actually, is expose it to a very dry atmosphere (unlikely in England! ) if it starts warping and contracting, it's Bovine or Ovine, my Wright Lambfoot is not appreciating the under 20% humidity of indoors here....

You could put the edge on a buffing wheel, again the smell will tell you or if you're unlucky it could be Cell in which case it might ignite in flames!

 

[meako]

I can attest to the dryness theory Will.
One of the scales on my Ablett began to lift and I was fearin for it so I supaglued it back .It's been right ever since

 

[Blake the Blade]

I plan to do the heated pin thing at some point today. I have an old straight razor which is almost certainly horn (but, of course, very difficult to tell) which should give me an idea of smell one way or the other. Also, I can practice how to do this on something I'm not too bothered about. I'll let you know how I get on, should be interesting. Thanks to everyone for their interest.

 

[Blake the Blade]

Right! I've done the hot pin test on my knife and the results are conclusive. I tried the hot pin test on the handle of my straight razor and there was a distinct smell of burning hair; so yes, horn. I did the same to my newly acquired folder which released an equally distinct smell, but this time of plastic. The scales are without doubt synthetic.

So yes slightly disappointed I suppose, but on the other hand not really. It's provoked some discussion and I've learnt something, which is great. The use of plastic is, after all, very much a part of traditional knife history and an interesting sub-genre in itself. It's also relevant to say that that the early use of plastic/celluloid etc. in the early days was not just as a result of economic, or even practical purposes, but also because of the possibilities it offered aesthetically I.E. it also made knives look good, as this one, for me, certainly does. So would I buy the same knife again, for the same price, knowing it was plastic? yes I certainly would. Its a great old folder with a history and life of its own and that's what interests me.

Keep your examples coming if you'd like to...real and synthetic. :thumbup:

- Mark

 

[Jack Black]

Blake, I would certainly have snapped up that knife. You are right, when plastics began to appear in the 19th century, manufacturers must have been thrilled by the aesthetic possibilities they presented :thumbup:

 

[Horsewright]

Thanks JB. I use to use a lot more buffalo horn in years past than I do now. Had trouble getting really good stuff for a while.

 

[Nature Boy]

So would I buy the same knife again, for the same price, knowing it was plastic? yes I certainly would.

That's what it's all about.

 

[meako]

Thanks JB. I use to use a lot more buffalo horn in years past than I do now. Had trouble getting really good stuff for a while.

Dave I have a project that I'm about commence with an 01 enzo blade using buffalo horn slabs ,spacer material and copper pins.
The horn slabs are quite rough at the moment. Although I will be doing most of it with hand tools are there any major dos n don'ts I should know about. Id like to get it glistening like the pieces in your beautiful photos.
Thanks in advance for any advice.


The scales are without doubt synthetic.
Yesss I knew it ! - MEAKINS PATENTED HORNITE "GUARANTEED NONE FAKER"


I'd be happy with that knife simply for its history and looks- I've certainly paid more for less in terms of quality.

 

[Blake the Blade]

Dave I have a project that I'm about commence with an 01 enzo blade using buffalo horn slabs ,spacer material and copper pins.
The horn slabs are quite rough at the moment. Although I will be doing most of it with hand tools are there any major dos n don'ts I should know about. Id like to get it glistening like the pieces in your beautiful photos.
Thanks in advance for any advice.


The scales are without doubt synthetic.
Yesss I knew it ! - MEAKINS PATENTED HORNITE "GUARANTEED NONE FAKER"


I'd be happy with that knife simply for its history and looks- I've certainly paid more for less in terms of quality.

Yes thank you meako, you are indeed 'the man' on the horn recognition front, though I don't think anyone was completely sure until the pin test was carried out. Thank you also for your kind words regarding my beautiful plastic knife. Thanks also to Jack Black and Nature Boy. :thumbup:

 

[Horsewright]

You bet meako. Water Buffalo horn is pretty easy to finish. Of all the natural materials I've used it probably polishes the best on the buffer. I hand sand up to 600 grit and then move to the buffer. I use several steps on the buffer. I have four and they are mounted on an 8' workbench that I roll outside for this. I start with a sisal string wheel and fast cut compound. It is important to keep using enough compound or the horn can burn. Not to worry, if ya burn it, reload your wheel and go back over the burnt spot and the burn will buff off. I also am buffing the spine of the tang at this time but be careful here too. You can wear the horn away from the spine and leave it proud with too heavy buffing. Light and easy is right. I then switch to a medium firm buff wheel using medium cut compound. This is where the gloss starts to build. After that I change to a medium wheel with green scratch remover. Then on a firmer wheel I go to pink scratchless followed by pink scratchless on a loose buff. Finally on a loose buff with green chrome compound. This will leave your horn glistening like glass. I don't use any finish at all I just leave the horn in its natural state but now higly polished. This progression is why I have four buffers each side of each buffer is set up with a specific wheel with a specific compound. So I progress from wheel to wheel. Total time maybe 3-4 minutes max.

Several cautions:

CAUTION #1 Buffing knives is EXTREMELY dangerous. Where all proper PPE and particularly a heavy leather apron. Some professional metal polishers wear chain mail aprons. BE CAREFUL.

Caution #2 when buffing pay particular attention around your pins. It is very easy to over heat your pins with heavy buffing and then burn the horn. This applies even more so with grinders while shaping your handle. Hand tools will of course make this threat with horn smaller. If you get a pin too hot this burn won't buff out it will leave a little discolored circle around the pin. Ya look at enough horn handles and you'll see it. Not uncommon.

So speaking of pins these days I will only use Loveless bolts or Corby bolts on buff horn. There is too much of a tendancy of horn wanting to go back to its origianl curved shape. No matter what epoxy you use eventually a scale will lift someplace, somewhere. Usually at the front or at the back of the handle. Those are corby's in that pic up above that my friend engraved after the knife was finished. I would be very heistant about using copper pins with buff horn and any power tools. Copper heats up really fast when worked. In this regards brass is best, then nickle silver, then stainless and finally copper. Heat is your enemy here.

Hope this helps and please if I can be of any assitance don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Rookie82]

Synthetic or no, it still is a wonderful looking knife. There is a lot of character in those handles.

Here are the only horn handled knives I own, all Tuna Valley brand, all buffalo horn.

 

[Blake the Blade]

Really beautiful knives Rookie, lovely to see em. Fascinating info Horsewright, thanks for that too. 👍

 

[neal70]

Meako, Will Power- I have lusted over those two knives and the railsplitter sooo many times. Whenever I find them the timing is never quite right for me to get them. You see the slip joints pop up on occasion, but almost never the Rat 3 anymore. All D2 blades and I've yet to see a "bad" example of horn on any of the ones I've seen. You two are lucky fellers in my opinion to have those-just fantastic knives. Sigh, envy thy name is ramshorn Rat. :thumbup:
Thanks, Neal

 

[meako]

Thanks so much Dave- slow and steady wins the race. I have a grinder and interchangeable buffs -it has a slow turning wet stone wheel too. Your advice will be very helpful this inaugural project.
might have to take the corby job to a mates shed for drill press/stepping?
cheers.

Neal-Ive been agitating for many years now for a ramshorn BF knife-2017. the only problem is that it would be more costly and too much variation compared to jigged bone or even wood. Although bla bla bla spring green stallion bla bla bla wildly varying colour bla bla bla dye job bla.

gotta show the Klaas made in China toothpick .Its down stairs but i have a SWMBO mission to accomplish first.
later dudes.

 

[Blake the Blade]

Update - Was a bit disappointed not to have finally found something in horn for my collection, but found this at the very first car boot sale following the above debacle. Okay its had a bit of a life this one and my honest, but practical, repair of a steel pin to replace the broken brass original has definitely added to the character of this fine old knife. But I am pretty sure these are genuine horn scales on this un-stamped, possibly French camp knife and I'm very happy to have it in my collection. :thumbup:

Untitled by Blake Blade, on Flickr