Horrible Kershaw CS Experience

[microtechnical]

Hello all,

I had to vent somewhere over my crazy Kershaw experience with customer service. I have always heard great things about their service but this was the first time I ever had to actually try and "use" it so to speak. The first ever knife I remember getting when I was a kid was Kershaw and now that I'm in my early 30's I have at least 15 of them.

Well I purchased two more Kershaw blades around Halloween time, two identical 1600VIB "rainbow" Chive knives. They were on a super special one day online so I grabbed them. Well the strangest thing happened, they came and they both stuck when you tried to open them. As mentioned I have a whole slew of Kershaw knives and most of them are assisted opening with the "speedsafe" system. I know how it usually works and that some of mine have broken in over time, etc. Well these two both just STUCK and I mean stuck hard when you tried to flick them open. Then you'd try to use the tiny little thumb studs and it'd feel like grinding gears trying to get it fully snapped open. I put some lube in there (Boeshield T-9) and even completely took apart the Torx screw, took the blades out and put them back together. Now that is where things start to get screwy.

I put both knives back together after lubricating them and now suddenly one snapped open nicely with a convincing "thwack", however the other one still completely stuck at the same point. Made no sense to me since I did everything exactly the same with them and they were both new in the box. So I thought hey, I'll break down and call Kershaw to see what they recommend. I called in and talked to a young guy (I have all the names but will keep from posting for now) and told him the issue. He said ya that seems weird, send that one in and I'll see what I can do with a complete overhaul on it. I ship it in, put it to his attention and see the tracking shows delivered 2 days later. Then complete silence for 5 weeks straight. On the 5th week I finally called back thinking that was far long enough to wait for what was a brand new knife. I called and the guy wasn't there but a girl looked it up in the computer and said a new torsion spring was put in it and it would be to me any day. 2 weeks later finally I get a shipping notice from UPS. The knife comes and I open the box... it has the original piece of paper I sent in with the knife but now featuring a whole bunch of cut out slash marks (obviously made with my knife), the knife itself and nothing else. I immediately grabbed the knife and tried to open it, immediately it stuck EXACTLY the same way it had before. I tried it many times and no way could I get it to open smoothly, it was exactly the same as before. Now mind you this is nearly 2 months after I shipped it in to them, I get back my original slip of paper with nothing on it but a bunch of cut out holes and my still messed up knife, now duller from cutting the paper and also with a bunch of scratches on it from someone maybe putting it in a clamp or something and clamping too hard, not sure, but major dings to the lovely rainbow body.

Ok so I called back to Kershaw and got the same lady that checked the status before, I asked for a manger and after explaining a bit she grabbed him for me. S. R. as I will call him came on the line and I explained everything. He said "my that is no good, let me send you a label to return the knife". I said great thanks and we hung up, pretty short and sweet but I felt I had told a manager and it was going to be fine now. A UPS label came and I sent it back that same day, it arrived 2 days later again. Now it has been again 5 weeks since that day. I called in to Kershaw this last week, talked to S.R. again and it was obvious he had no recollection of me or any of it. He looked in the computer and repeated the exact same phrase as I heard months ago "we sent it to repair, the replaced they torsion spring". I said hmm OK that is what they said last time, but it definitely springs open nicely now? "Yes it does" he said, OK Great I said when will it come, "it should ship tomorrow". Now it has been 6 days since then and still no shipment. If the same knife comes back in the same shape I am going to be beyond upset. I only possessed the knife for maybe 4 hours total before shipping it to warranty for the help, now we are at the nearly 4 MONTH mark and it hasn't come back.

I think I may write a letter to the owners, or does anyone know how I can reach them? I thought for sure a manager would help me but this is ridiculous.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the long post!

I have some photos as well to show the cut up paper and some of the dings on the knife. I can maybe post those in a bit if anyone cares.

Tim

 

[egally08]

I would call them as soon as they open tomorrow, and tell them you do not want that knife back, you want a completely new knife. If they dinged up the rainbow finish the first time around, than that is only reasonable they replace it.

 

[midnight flyer]

Well... it's very sad to read this post. One of the hallmark reasons to purchase Kershaw is their reputation for stellar customer service. I certainly hope this all works out for you.

I know that here on BF there are a lot folks that feel "they become one" with their knives if they repair it or tune it up. It is part of the knife buying experience for them regardless of the manufacturer. Not me; I have plenty of knives, and have bought plenty of knives. I want them to work properly when I get them.

In the future, I would suggest that you send the knife back to the vendor and let them deal with the consequences of selling a flawed or broken product. Most likely they would return the knife to Kershaw for credit and it would become a parts knife.

Robert

 

[microtechnical]

Hey there midnight flyer and egally08!

That is so cool that you folks read my post and replied, I have read these forums many times for info on things but never actually had an account or posted until this!

So, as an update, suddenly today I received an automatic email from UPS (I have never received a single word from Kershaw, no emails, no letters, no calls, every time I have called them to check and the return of the knife the first time had not a single word written or a stamp that it was "received" or anything to indicate a human even saw it other than the slices out of my original papers) that a UPS package from "KAI" is on its way to me, so it's almost like they saw the post and said oh crap we better get that one out! haha

Something tells me that it's going to be the same knife back in the same sad condition, but I hope I am wrong. I actually included a little note in the box when I sent it back to the manager reminding him of what we talked about on the phone, the whole strange experience, and that if possible I'd like a whole NEW knife not this one as it's now dinged up and all that. But when I called and checked they said it was repaired. Hmm we will see I guess.

If I didn't get this email saying it had shipped I would do exactly as egally08 suggested and call and say I just really expect a new knife at this point. I should have done that this most recent time on the phone but I just felt completely deflated for lack of a better word, when I heard the manager repeat literally the exact same phrase about coming back from repair...

So ya, time will tell, but if it is the same knife and still won't open correctly then I am going to call back and ask for whoever is in charge of the managers this time!

Oh also midnight flyer - believe it or not I DID just exactly as you suggested. I will just come out and say they were bought at Amazon... now I know they have great service so I went back to them originally. I should have put this in my first post because it makes Kershaw's quality control just look that much sadder. I actually DID contact Amazon right away and told them, they shipped me TWO replacement knives in place of the originals, and the replacements ALSO had this same problem. That's when I started dissecting them and then calling for help. By that time I already sent back the original two or I would have taken them apart to see if somehow I could get two working ones out of all FOUR.

Bizarre I know!

Thanks again for reading this and for the feedback, I will let everyone know what happens.

 

[kershawguy]

what part of the country do you live in ?

 

[microtechnical]

Hey there Kershaw Guy! I'm here in Denver Colorado! If there is any way you can help that would be awesome. Thanks as well for reading!

 

[midnight flyer]

Hey there midnight flyer and egally08!

That is so cool that you folks read my post and replied, I have read these forums many times for info on things but never actually had an account or posted until this!

Lots of good folks, helpful folks and just good guys around here. I am just passing it on as I have been helped as well by the guys that hang out here.

Just another word of encouragement towards Kershaw... we all have bad days, sometimes quite a few. I am NOT a fan boy by any means, but a huge fan of Kershaw knives. I have a few and use them in my construction work almost daily, most times many times a day. They are the hardest working, most reliable and useful knives I own. Mine don't cut up apples for lunch; they work as tools for me.

Kershaw is a monster sized company now and makes too many designs to count. I am hoping you fell a bit between the cracks and this time they are getting it right. In the old Kershaw forum (before it went away!) and now in the General Discussion you will see that good reports of Kershaw CS outweigh bad reports by 10 to 1. Keep in mind that unsatisfied people scream pretty loudly (me included!) when wronged, but others have a tendency to keep quiet when they are satisfied. I still bet Kershaw will take care of you.

Let us know what they do. If they don't come back here and turn on the burners. But be fair, if they take care of you come back and let us know that, too.

Oh also midnight flyer - believe it or not I DID just exactly as you suggested. I will just come out and say they were bought at Amazon... now I know they have great service so I went back to them originally. I should have put this in my first post because it makes Kershaw's quality control just look that much sadder. I actually DID contact Amazon right away and told them, they shipped me TWO replacement knives in place of the originals, and the replacements ALSO had this same problem. That's when I started dissecting them and then calling for help. By that time I already sent back the original two or I would have taken them apart to see if somehow I could get two working ones out of all FOUR.

Bizarre I know!

Hey, cut that out!

Don't make a "Frankenknife" out of their parts! Send them back or they can void their CS agreement at the "big jungle site" or anywhere else when you take their product apart.

If you got 4 that were out of whack, all with the same problem, it sounds like there was a bad run of parts or a machine got out of adjustment.

Got my fingers crossed for 'ya!

Robert

 

[kershawguy]

Well, just keep a few things in mind going forward. Kershaw has one of the best CS reputations in the Business and even they have bad days. The 1600 series are the most temper-mental bunch of assisted openers that I have worked with, they need to be tuned carefully. I have noticed that they are even very sensitive to cold as far as opening, so when you get it back if it doesn't open right let it warm to room temperature before you tune it. A very slight amount of turn on pivot makes a large difference and even the frame screws if to tight will affect the opening. You should never have to take them apart and lube them, this will just cause more dirt and junk to be collected inside the knife. I have sent out hundreds of chives from here, I always make sure they are working when they leave and there are always some that arrive not functioning the same way they left and I have to attribute that to climate in some cases. With all this said, if you are still having problems with these knives when you get them back, box them up and send them to me, I have had lots of experience with the little buggers. Final word, give Kershaw guys a break, they really do a great job of taking care of us and you will read one bad feedback like yours for every Million customers they have made happy. Most people don't say anything when they are happy.

 

[microtechnical]

Thanks again for the replies. I agree that they are a huge company and I know how that goes, as you folks mention things slide through the cracks.

Definitely if they "make it right" so to speak I will post that on here! I'm very excited to hear that it sounds like I have backup options now if it is still goofed up.

Also thanks for the info that taking it apart and lubricating is a bad idea, I'm pretty amateur at all this.. Is it ok to just lube the blade and pivot parts without taking it apart?

As soon as I see the box back I'll let everyone know!

Thanks again

 

[microtechnical]

I didn't think I would be updating already but here I am! The package did come today, I guess the UPS notice was to let me know a box was almost here and not that it just shipped as I suspected.

So the package comes and I open it up, out falls the original papers that I sent in to Kershaw months before, no new papers or any other indication the knife had anything done.

The knife itself was back in my original red Kershaw box, but now the box is completely squished flat as if someone had taken it and stomped on it a few times, completely squished. This leads me to the point that they shipped it back in a small padded envelope. When I shipped it in to them I made sure it was in a hard rigid box since this thing was brand new, and I included the brand new kershaw box it came with as well (to show them just how fresh it really was). They have shipped it back to me twice now in just a tiny padded envelope and each time it has been even more squished. I'm sure UPS isn't helping things but when it's just a padded envelope you are asking for trouble when you put a hard sided box inside. I should take a picture of how ridiculous my outer box looks now, vs my pristine one from the matching knife of the pair.

So that leads me to open the box and get the knife out, sure enough it does actually open now... they must have actually done something that way, that is helpful. Of course the same pretty nasty scratches remain with a few knew ones added to the mix, possibly some little mars are from being smashed inside the box.

So ya, I'm not exactly thrilled, months later I do now have the knife back and it opens. Sadly the original box is pretty well shot and the actual knife itself looks like I've used and abused it for at least months. With this "rainbow" finish I planned to keep this around my desk and just to play with and look at... This one now is pretty rough looking, I guess you have to go looking for the dings but I definitely know where they are haha. The worse are some four deep scratches near the thumb studs on the rainbow body itself. I'd guess from some kind of metal clamp that held the knife that was clamped down so hard it left it's metal teeth marks on the rainbow, scaring it pretty deeply.

So if anyone has any ideas or knows how I could possibly escalate this even further? I included a hand written letter to the manager last time letting them know of the dings and scratches and it seems he completely ignored it and just sent back this same knife. If it wasn't literally brand new before shipping in I wouldn't care, but it was barely hours old and pristine haha.

Let me see if I can figure out how to get some pictures on here maybe... but any ideas on how I could escalate it to even higher up people at Kershaw would be appreciated. Maybe I just need to call back but I don't want to deal with the same people that have yet to seem like they care at all.

I'd send it to you kershaw guy but it does open now so it's not really needing a repair, it's like the finish is shot - and they were bought for the finish specifically.

Thanks much!

 

[asdf12345]

I'm sure KAI is too busy releasing exciting new knives to worry about customer service and repairs. I think that's completely reasonable and you should be patient and understanding. While what happened to your knife is a bummer, I think you should "forgive and forget" and just buy another Kershaw. Maybe pick up a cool new ZT while you're at it.

If you really want your knife taken care of then you might have to send it back three or four more times like others have done. Don't worry, though. It's a testament to the perseverance and quality of their customer service that even if it takes several returns to the factory, they will eventually get your item fixed. In the meantime why not pick up another Kershaw to tide you over while your knife goes back and forth.

 

[Sosa]

I never send knives in with the original box. Either it will get lost or el squasho.

 

[microtechnical]

Lol asdf I love your name there that's awesome. I originally was going to just chalk it up to forgive and forget but since it's been so long at this point and these are something like $100 retail, I thought Kershaw might care. You may be on to something there, maybe they have got too big and have too many new things going on to care. I may give it another go or may not depending on my craziness level at any given time.

Sosa yes maybe you are correct that I shouldn't have sent the box. Truly I don't care much about the box but the fact that it was so thoroughly smashed speaks to the level of care that the whole transaction experienced.

Any other ideas or contact paths would still be appreciated! Thanks everyone for reading and responding!

 

[JohnWE]

Who did you purchase the knives from originally?

 

[midnight flyer]

Also thanks for the info that taking it apart and lubricating is a bad idea, I'm pretty amateur at all this.. Is it ok to just lube the blade and pivot parts without taking it apart?

I have never heard of a knife falling out of warranty because it was lubricated. However, taking a knife apart will in most cases void your warranty, regardless of manufacturer. One of the things a new knife immediately gets from me is a shot of good lubricant to ease the metal on metal friction.

So will sharpening, rebeveling, or modifying the knife or its components in any way.

As a further note, many vendors will not accept the return of a new knife if the manufacturer's box is damaged. If the vendor accepts the return and in his opinion the knife isn't damaged, is in like new condition and is working within reasonable parameters they will simply re-sell the knife. Since so many folks are just collectors, the box is a very important part of the knife sale.

Robert

 

[Rey HRH]

Microtechnical:

1) Did you fill out the warranty form when you sent out the knife in the first instance? i read that you sent a piece of paper with the knife but was it the warranty request form? When you talked to the young guy the first time, did he give you an RMA number?

The reason I ask is that the warranty form efficiently captures the information Kershaw needs for them to understand what the issue is. And the reason I ask if he gave you an RMA number would be to allow that if he gave you an RMA number, then it would have meant he entered it into their system and captured what the issue is. I don't understand why you would send it to his attention when he's in customer service. If he didn't give you an RMA number, I can't imagine he would remember you from the other phone calls he received even if you did give him a letter. I further can't imagine that once he gets your package in the mail since you put it to his attention that he would put down his head set and walk it over to the guy in warranty service to explain to him what needs to be done.

2) Did you not read at the bottom of the warranty form, if you filled one out, where it says, "Note: If you wish to keep your original Kershaw or ZT packaging, please do not send it with your warranty or service shipment. All shipping materials will be recycled."?

You can find the form here: http://kershaw.kaiusaltd.com/warranty/form

I'm not trying to give you a hard time or stand up for kershaw. I'm just trying to give you clarification on what might have impeded them fixing your problem and maybe help make it smoother for you the next time you need to send a knife to kershaw or a sister company.

 

[Fanglekai]

Contact Amazon customer service and explain your situation. They might let you return it. Two trips and over four months wait time is unacceptable. Get your money back through KAI or Amazon.

 

[Rey HRH]

However, taking a knife apart will in most cases void your warranty, regardless of manufacturer. O
Robert

Specifically to Kershaw, I don't see anywhere on their warranty that taking a knife apart will void the warranty.

As a matter of fact, under the warranty question "Can I have a part sent to me?" The answer in part says, "We can send you screws, pocketclips, torsion bars, safety lock sets, the pivot bolt and screws, and handle screws for USA-made knives."

Why would they send you screws, torsion bars, pivot bolt and screws that would imply needing to take the knife apart if doing so voids the warranty?

 

[midnight flyer]

Specifically to Kershaw, I don't see anywhere on their warranty that taking a knife apart will void the warranty.

As a matter of fact, under the warranty question "Can I have a part sent to me?" The answer in part says, "We can send you screws, pocketclips, torsion bars, safety lock sets, the pivot bolt and screws, and handle screws for USA-made knives."

Why would they send you screws, torsion bars, pivot bolt and screws that would imply needing to take the knife apart if doing so voids the warranty?

If you want to play that game with Kershaw, go ahead. With a brand new, never used knife that works improperly, manufacturers want "first look" at the product by their technicians. This determines if the knife is eligible for replacement as a faulty product. If they determine that the "fault" is that you put the knife together incorrectly, or inadvertently damaged a part on a brand new knife, you may be responsible. This is for their quality control as much as anything else as it allows them to asses their end product, and keep you from filing a false claim on a brand new knife.

This aspect of the warranty was discussed many times in the old Kershaw forum.

When Kershaw received a knife that was brand new and untouched that didn't operate properly, all gray area about whether or not it was sent in for warranty was removed. If the knife was new and didn't work properly, they repaired or replaced the knife.

Read the actual LIMITED warranty that says in part:

Kershaw Knives from Kai USA Ltd. carry a limited warranty for the lifetime of the original owner, except when stated otherwise. We guarantee our knives against manufacturing defects in material and construction and to perform as advertised when properly used and maintained. The Limited Lifetime Warranty is non-transferable and does not extend to normal signs of wear, rust, damage or breakage due to improper use, improper maintenance, accidents, loss or theft. Any product we determine to be defective will be repaired or replaced solely at our discretion. To receive warranty repair or replacement, the owner must send the product to be evaluated by Kai USA Warranty Services in our Tualatin, Oregon headquarters.

They clearly state they are NOT RESPONSIBLE for improper maintenance. So the will gladly let you work on your own knife, but if you make a mistake, they don't have to cover it. Note too, the use of their sole discretion of making the determination of what is a warranty issue and what isn't.

Kershaw is famous for standing by their products, but even they have limits. Around the 'net there are more and more stories (not a flood by any means) of Kershaw having less quality customer service than before, resulting in service stories like the OPs.

And think this through; if they cannot fix a problem that is spelled out to them in writing, why wouldn't they use the wiggle room in the warranty to deny your claim if they wanted to? The OP clearly states that he sent in the knife using their form and made actual voice contact with them and after 5 weeks they simply sent the knife back NOT REPAIRED. As far as the scratches in the rainbow finish, do you really want to get into finger pointing contest with them about which guy that took it apart scratched the finish?

Obviously, you have had some fine experiences with customer service from different companies over time. Me, not so much. As a contractor I have tools and implements that are warranted, but never have I had someone say "hey, it's OK for you to take apart that brand new tool and see what you think is wrong" when it doesn't work. They have all said the same thing, which is to send it to them for evaluation. They are most interested if they find it didn't perform well out of the box.

Dig around a little here and you will find stories of examples where manufacturers have gone out of their way to make customers happy, and where other prominent manufacturers have used the "sole discretion" clause to weasel out of warranty issues.

Most certainly, do what you want. I don't enjoy getting broken products for my hard earned money and refuse to work on them to do the manufacturer's quality control. As a brand new knife, untouched by anyone but them, sent back to the manufacturer for warranty service, even the worst simpletons manufacturing can easily determine fault.

Robert

 

[microtechnical]

Hello all!

Thanks for all the awesome replies, I had no idea I would see so much action on this thread!

Yes it was Amazon where it was purchased, so I may just try to go back to them and see what they think about all of this.

To answer Rey HRH's questions - yes I did fill out the warranty form, I'm not sure if they gave me an actual RMA on the phone or anything I don't think so, but the young guy knew I had the form filled out already (I told him that much) and said that I should send it in directly to his attention, which I did. So I'm pretty sure it was this person that was the one that somehow clamped down and scratched up the original knife because as far as I can tell he handled most everything related to the original shipment. I don't want him to get in trouble or anything but maybe they need to remind him that if it's a brand new knife / a fancy finish on it to be a little more careful with the clamp or whatever.

Also to Rey HRH's point yes I did see that they don't recommend sending anything in but the knife itself. For whatever reason I sent it with the box, again I was thinking it would show them just how factory fresh this knife really was, and maybe it had a batch number or something on the box that'd help them figure out why this happened in the first place. The fact that the box was mangled in the process isn't the end of the world but just adds to the strangeness of the situation.

I guess I will try Amazon at this point and see if they will consider a replacement for that knife somehow even though it's been months. I hate to make them "absorb" KAI's mistake but I was thinking that may be the easiest way to go and I see you folks suggest it even... so maybe I will just do that!

Still if anyone knows how I can get a hold of someone really in charge of anything at Kershaw I would at least write them a letter about all this. Somebody somewhere has to care, don't they? haha

Oh also, more to midnight's point - I still find it extremely strange that some people feel Kershaw doesn't want you to take apart the knife. Now that I think more the guy that I talked to at KAI, it was actually his recommendation to do this. When I told him how the blades were sticking he suggested loosening that pivot screw or even taking it completely out and putting it back in. So I did that (and added a tiny drop of lube as well while it was apart) and as I said before sure enough that actually FIXED the one knife and the other was still stuck. But I know for sure this guy told me to try and take apart the knife, he even instructed me on how to put some pressure on the blade tip to make sure the screws would come undone and not just spin... I think you are more focused on that "solely at our discretion" line in their warranty. That seems to be a catchall for any kind of strange situation. Sure if you took apart your knife and put it back together and somehow put the blade on backwards for example, they may just look at it and say woah that's already too screwed up for us to try and work on. But I think that they are completely fine with you taking your knife apart, but if you mess something up then ya they won't be likely to cover it.

Anyway, just wanted to address everything I could.

Thanks all!