Hot Dog cans and Busse blades!

The General · Jan 6, 2003

I have been 'destructivly' testing some of my blades by opening the insidious and Cliff Stampian HotDog cans of dread!

The worst damage so far was to a N7 Opinel folder with a 10degree per side edge angle. The edge was ruined and required several mins on a steel to get rid of the worst nicks and dinks.

Anyone tried opening tin cans with any Busse knives? Any picks? Could a Busse knife open a tin can and still shave at that part of the blade? Or any steel for that matter?

Just got the tin can opening bug and my SAK's and Leathermen are hiding from me!

LOL!

SALTY · Jan 6, 2003

How about we fill those tin cans with concrete first, then see how different knives do opening them?

The General · Jan 6, 2003

Hmmmm... interesting!

What brand though? Our local Castle Cement is supposed to be good! It uses granite in the mix I think!

Cliff Stamp · Jan 6, 2003

Tin cans are not that difficult to cut, consider that the blades in openers are not made of high grade steel and how often do you have to replace them. However while tin and softer metals don't induce much blunting on quality steels, in heavy cutting (fast and/or high impact) tend to deposit large amounts of metal on the edges by adhesive wear which can require a decent amount of honing to remove, you just file it off.

-Cliff

MikeH · Jan 6, 2003

Spycerco Native will open a tin can with minor, easily repaired blade nicking resulting. Oh, the things you learn when your pickup gets stuck miles from nowhere on the last evening of deer season, and you have to sleep in it!

Geraldo · Jan 6, 2003

A can of hot dogs, man I gotta see that

:barf:

You're destructively testing yourself with those tube steaks

Chip · Jan 6, 2003

Might have to give this a try, where's my basket??

idahoskunk · Jan 6, 2003

don't try it chip

you'll be singing soprano for sure

sevenedges · Jan 7, 2003

I used a Mean Street several years ago to open a can of Dinty Moore Beef Stew while backpacking, yes, it was only two nights so I decided to carry one can in with me

. It scratched the crap out of the coating, (probably because those knives are so thick for their width) but that was about it. Dulled slightly but not much.

Jeff

SALTY · Jan 8, 2003

Busse knives and cans have a unique bond. Remember, they begin their very existance surrounded by CBL cans.

Strabs · Jan 8, 2003

What the hell are hot dog cans?

Yours in only knowing plastic wrapped weiners

Kev

sevenedges · Jan 10, 2003

Maybe vienna sausage cans?

Chip · Jan 10, 2003

Franks and beans

SALTY · Jan 11, 2003

Cliff may have to weigh in on this one, but I heard that under certain atmospheric condition which are very difficult to duplicate under scientific/laboratory settings, CBL cans have been known to pop open by merely having an INFI knife waved in proximity of the can.

The General · Jan 11, 2003

Ok, CBL cans? Huh?

Cliff, you argue that the steel used in can openers is hardly INFI or ATS-34 etc, but how many can openers shave arm hair?

My concern was a shaving sharp edge failing due to massive fracture damage or nicks. My 1084 steel Opinel suffered serious nicks and dinks, where my similarily sharp Spyderco fixed blade in vg10 suffered only rolling and dulling. Equally my Ontario Marine knife tip bent, whilst my Ka Bar in same steel was hardly marked at all! My D2 varient held up very very well. The best results so far were with my 154cm Puma Cougar which suffered very very slight edge dulling which popped right back with a steel and a couple of passes with a sharpmaker.

My question stands, could I still shave arm hair with a Busse after this test? None of my current blades will.

sevenedges · Jan 11, 2003

It depends on how much you cut with it. But I seriously doubt it. Metal to metal will dull any edge, but you wont see any chipping, or nicks in the edge. At most it would roll the edge over.

1whobuys · Jan 11, 2003

I'm surprised this thread keeps going and going....
Maybe we can get our own can chopping guru Chip on the case with his magic swinging basket...

Cliff Stamp · Jan 11, 2003

The General :

... but how many can openers shave arm hair

As many as you wanted to sharpen. Even very cheap steels can take a razor edge, it is one of the common knife myths that a sharpness is a sign of steel quality. The reason that can openers don't have shaving sharp blades is that they would not function significantly better if they did. The effort used to push the opener through the metal isn't significantly increased or decreased by the edge sharpness. The force is mainly due to the fact that you have to deform the metal and thus just the cross section is important.

My concern was a shaving sharp edge failing ...

It is another myth that shaving sharp implies a low durability. The more polished and aligned an edge the more durable. Scratchs and uneven surface finishes just act as stress risors. Assuming the bevels on your edges are meeting, then they will be more durable if highly polished.

My 1084 steel Opinel suffered serious nicks and dinks, where my similarily sharp Spyderco fixed blade in vg10 suffered only rolling and dulling.

The Opinel is significantly softer, and unless you have modified the edge profiles, much thinner and more acute than the Spyderco.

Equally my Ontario Marine knife tip bent ...

Ontarios quality control is all over the place, I have seen similar knives shatter, bend and remain perfect all on the same task.

... could I still shave arm hair with a Busse after this test?

It would depend on how much twisting you did with the edge, this is why can openers can get away with cheap steel as the side loads are very small. I would not expect any significant damage with an INFI blade unless your hot dog tins are hardened steel or significant thickness, all ours come in shrink wrap here so I can't comment directly. I have cut Al pop cans, sideways and straight down with no significant dulling, still shaving. Sometimes you will get adhesive metal deposits though. I have also chopped into pain cans with no significant dulling. The blade would not shave after the latter, but it wasn't so before hand anyway.

-Cliff

Dr.V · Jan 11, 2003

Cliff's right, twisting is the key here. I've opened cans with nearly every knife I own, except for small, non-locking folders, without much, if any, damage or significant dulling. If you can get the tip through without breaking it you're home free unless you slip and dump the contents all over you.

Stab that same can and twist the knife in the hole and you're sure to bend or break the edge, even with INFI. Of course, the edge geometry and the type and hardness of the steel will be related the extent and type of damage (either bending or breaking). In fact, my Randalls (O-1 at 55 Rc) fair the best with no real damage at all.

Rich

Chip · Jan 11, 2003

Chuck,
I don't have any Hot Dog cans. How about a can of Ravioli's??
That's the best I can do.