Hot pressing a guard

[JTknives]

As I sit her fitting a wrought iron guard with needle files to the tang of seax blade I start too think. This usually is not good as it normally ends up in some random crazy tangent. Being that I normally prefer to move steel then to remove steel I got to wondering if when fitting a metal guard you could create a simple slot and then heat the guard in the forge and then press/hammer it over and down the tang. This would not work with a finished guard but in my case the guard is just a disk that's about 1/8" thick wrought iron. After the guards slot it shaped to the tang then you would grind the surfaces leaving the slot as forged. Am I off track or does this idea have merit?

 

[john april]

i dont think the 1/8" would stay red long enough to get it pounded over the tang. it cant hurt to give it a try though !

 

[HSC ///]

interesting you mention this,
at our machine shop I'm on the verge of buying a shrink fit toolholder system.

you can see the heater and details here - http://www.tecnaratools.com/index.php/mst/slimline-shrink-fit/mst-angle-attachment-181.html

Basically the holder gets heated up and shrinks onto the cutting tool.

if we get the system, I might try it on a guard tang fit

 

[Will52100]

I personally haven't done it, I use a lot of bronze, but a buddy of mine does it all the time. The trick is to get it hot and go from forge to knife as quick as you can. Have everything set up and ready to go. On something as thin as 1/8" I'd think it'd take two or three times to get it knocked on. One thing to remember, hot metal expands, when it cools it shrinks. If your doing a rustic knife you can hot fit it and as it cools it will seal itself to the knife, just need to protect the blade from heat transfer with a wet rag or something. Or just make sure you knock it off before it cools too much, might take a slight bit of file work to get it to fit again once cool.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I did it with a tanto ... once. I locked the foundation polished blade in the vise jaws ( copper lined jaws) and left the nakago/tang sticking up. The slightly undersized slotted tsuba/guard was heated to dull red and dropped over the tang. A pipe sleeve that had been ovaled was used as a drive tube to seat the tsuba. Then I quickly opened the jaws a tad and struck the tang to drive it out of the tsuba before it cooled and got stuck. The tsuba and blade were then finished and re-assembled. It wasn't any better than the normal fitting method, so I never did it again.

 

[S.Alexander]

Can't say that I've ever done it. It seems it would be more advantageous to do it on a larger guard for a sword or something. Interesting idea nonetheless.

 

[hardingknives]

Nick Rossi is the hot fit man!

 

[Steinerj]

Nick Rossi is the hot fit man!

Yes, Indeed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJa8jSY_0FM

 

[Hankins]

What comes to mind is putting the blade in the "Freezer" and heating the guard... Get it pretty close by hand first. Wrought is pretty malleable so should expand enough to look like it grew in place when set :thumbup:

 

[JTknives]

Yes, Indeed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJa8jSY_0FM

Ok that's perfect, that's just what I was thinking of trying. It seams like a no nonsense way to fit the tang slot to the tang perfect. Then just grind the hard to clean up. I'm going to have to now try it. Thanks guys, this could save me s ton of time.

 

[TStilwell]

I have heard of a fella (MPKnives) makes a hot punch that matches the tang and uses that to punch the slot in the Guard for the tang. That might well be easier than trying to punch the "thin" guard over the tang, and less chance of messing up your blade.

 

[JTknives]

Well after work I ran out to the shop and fired up the forge. While it was heating I made a tang shaped punch out of some D2 planer blades I have. I punched the hole and then clamped the knife (scrap knife that cracked) in the post vise. Re heated the guard and hammered it over the tang and then used a 1/2" black pipe (flattened it a touch so it's oval) to drive the guard over and down the tang. Loosened vise and tapped the tang and removed the blade from the guard. Re heat the guard and gently forge it down flat again and then hammer down onto the tang. Did this a few times till it fit perfect and was flat. Cooled the guard (wrought iron) and the ground the surface and man what a nice square hole. After grinding the surface down a little I needed to use a needle file to radius the ends of the hold to fit the radius of the tang. Being that this was just a test and not actually something I was going to use I was just going after it with out the care I would with an actual guard. But let me say this I'm very impressed and can say it's the tightest fit I have gotten of a guard to tang except when using a mill. I will defently be doing this much more in the future.

 

[JTknives]

I have heard of a fella (MPKnives) makes a hot punch that matches the tang and uses that to punch the slot in the Guard for the tang. That might well be easier than trying to punch the "thin" guard over the tang, and less chance of messing up your blade.

I was not thinking about using the tang to hot punch the guard. I was thinking about making a simple slot and then forging that slot down around the tang. But the hot punch worked much nicer.

 

[HSC ///]

looks like u got it all sorted out but here is the system we are looking at for shrink fit holders
the expansion of the holder is to .0012 and then you drop the tool in and then the holder cools around the cutter.

Might work for a guard/tang fit.