How are you doing your scandi grind?

Mitchell Knives

Mitchell Knives

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I've been thinking about doing some outdoor style knives with a scandi grind. How exactly is everyone accomplishing this? It seems like it would be extremely difficult to maintain a truly flat grind of that height the entire length of the blade.

For those of you that do a lot of scandi ground knives, are you using a jig or just grinding freehand? Thanks!
 
I have only done one scandi grind knife and I mainly free handed it. I scribed my lines and ground up to them then I used my file jig to make them as close to exact as I could.

DSC01384.jpg
 
I've done some partial skandi grinds and with sharp belts and the bubble jig it's not that bad. The trick is to be consistent AND make sure you don't get off kilter more than a tiny bit. I think it's easier to work slowly and not be 100% fixed on where the grind ends, if you goof a little you might wind up slightly higher in order to fix things. Nice and slow to get started, while your hands get the pattern right, then nice and slow as you get close.

If you wind up even and straight but slightly high and you really want it to be lower you can grind the flats a little but make sure you're flat and straight first, it won't remove any errors there.
 
I have not done this yet but here is my thought on a trick . Set your tool rest at the angle you want the grind up to the flat platen . Lay the blade on the tool rest , push up to the platen and grind away . You would maintain the same angle on both sides .
 
It is very important that you keep the entire bevel in the same plane on a Scandi ground knife. If you do not, then the first time your customer sharpens the knife the stone will immediately highlight any uneven spots!!! Your customer then has the choice of fixing your grind, or returning the knife.

Use a jig. They're easy cheap and fast to make. Cut a 12.5 degree wedge of wood on your table saw. Glue it to a piece of thin plywood. Add a micarta face. Set the platten square to the tool rest. Push the jig into the running belt until it runs right into it. No gap. Clamp the jig in place and use it to grind your bevels keeping the flats hard pressed onto the face of the jig while pushing the bevels into the belt.

If you've ever hand sharpened a badly done scandi grind you'll never avoid the jig again. Very first pass on the stone shows every mistake.
 
Fiddleback said:
It is very important that you keep the entire bevel in the same plane on a Scandi ground knife. If you do not, then the first time your customer sharpens the knife the stone will immediately highlight any uneven spots!!! Your customer then has the choice of fixing your grind, or returning the knife.

Use a jig. They're easy cheap and fast to make. Cut a 12.5 degree wedge of wood on your table saw. Glue it to a piece of thin plywood. Add a micarta face. Set the platten square to the tool rest. Push the jig into the running belt until it runs right into it. No gap. Clamp the jig in place and use it to grind your bevels keeping the flats hard pressed onto the face of the jig while pushing the bevels into the belt.

If you've ever hand sharpened a badly done scandi grind you'll never avoid the jig again. Very first pass on the stone shows every mistake.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I had made a jig like this, but I didn't think to glue a piece of micarta to the face. I kept setting the wooden block on fire! I'll give that a try.

Are you grinding these edge down? It seems like it would be easier to rest the blade against the wedge in this orientation.
 
Fiddleback said:
It is very important that you keep the entire bevel in the same plane on a Scandi ground knife. If you do not, then the first time your customer sharpens the knife the stone will immediately highlight any uneven spots!!! Your customer then has the choice of fixing your grind, or returning the knife.

Use a jig. They're easy cheap and fast to make. Cut a 12.5 degree wedge of wood on your table saw. Glue it to a piece of thin plywood. Add a micarta face. Set the platten square to the tool rest. Push the jig into the running belt until it runs right into it. No gap. Clamp the jig in place and use it to grind your bevels keeping the flats hard pressed onto the face of the jig while pushing the bevels into the belt.

If you've ever hand sharpened a badly done scandi grind you'll never avoid the jig again. Very first pass on the stone shows every mistake.
Click to expand...

This makes sense. How do you rotate the knife to go around the tip while using the jig? Doesn't the edge need to stay perpendicular to the belt on the jig so the angles are the same from the flat part of the edge around the curve to the tip? Thanks!
 
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A lot of patience on a large water cooled wheel followed by a belt sander, diamond plates, waterstones, and diamond paste loaded strops. Freehand. It winds up slightly convex sabre ground. It looks like a true scandi on casual examination. I typically add a 30 degree microbevel on the sharpmaker (usually with only the ultra fine rods) before diamond stripping begins. After going from 6 microns to 3 microns to (finally) 1 micron on the diamond strops the micro bevel from the ultra fine Spyderco rods is, itself, pretty convex and blended into the primary grind; you'd have to be obsessed with knives in order to know the difference.

Edit: I don't try to misrepresent what I make as a 'true scandi grind' -- I do this as a hobby and most of my 'buyers' are either Internet people who are knife knuts, or friends of mine who are foodies or chefs; they just want something sharp with an easy sharpening procedure (you strop these knives for the most part -- and occasionally touch them up on sharpmaker rods -- and then strop the micro bevel into the general convex edge; easy).
 
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Andy put up some VERY sound advice. I ground a couple hundred of them and did all of them free-hand. I had several years of grinding under my belt, and found the free-hand Scandi grind to be VERY, VERY difficult to pull off. Just like Andy said, the first time it's laid to a stone, it will absolutely light up every little facet if the bevel isn't F-L-A-T.

I ruined about 10 blades before I felt like I had it down with enough confidence to do the ordered blades.

While I was in school this last time around, I TIG'd up a rest much like what Andy described making out of wood and micarta. I grabbed one of the old blades I had laying around and tried the rest. It made the bevel dead nuts flat and took a tiny fraction of the time to do compared to free-hand... and best of all... no stress!!! ;) :)

Sometimes you really gotta look at that working smarter versus harder thing. ;) :)

BTW- Just look at the Scandi ground knives Andy is kicking out of his shop and you will have no desire to wander from his advice!!! :thumbup: :cool: :)

Edited to add: montesa, I think your confusion comes from Andy saying a "jig." Only because most people think of a jig as something you clamp the blade to and then move/slide/rotate. He's talking about a tool rest (some folks would also call it a fixture)... but the tool rest is in a fixed position in front of the belt. The blade is held with your hands while it is laying against the rest, you push the blade up into the moving belt and then move and rotate the blade to achieve a grind that follows the edge profile. At least that's what I'm talking about with my rest, and I'm pretty confident that's what Andy is doing too. :)
 
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This might be to simple for most. Set platen to angle you want and clamp the blade to a good sized piece of angle iron. Make sure the angle iron sits flat on the rest.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
Thanks!

I had made a jig like this, but I didn't think to glue a piece of micarta to the face. I kept setting the wooden block on fire! I'll give that a try.

Are you grinding these edge down? It seems like it would be easier to rest the blade against the wedge in this orientation.
Click to expand...

I always grind edge up. The freehand convex ones too. Gotta see the edge.


montesa said:
This makes sense. How do you rotate the knife to go around the tip while using the jig? Doesn't the edge need to stay perpendicular to the belt on the jig so the angles are the same from the flat part of the edge around the curve to the tip? Thanks!
Click to expand...

montesa said:
Does my question make sense at all? Probably not!
Click to expand...

Your question was a good one, I was afraid to check the thread at all. I usually am if I've given advice.


You simply rotate the blade trying to keep the belt at roughly 90 degrees to the edge, and the flats tight to the <fixture>. LOL. Thanks Nick. If you finish up and one bevel is higher than the other, you'll also notice that the edge isn't centered. Put it back to the jig and grind until the edge looks centered, and the bevels seem even height.

NickWheeler said:
Andy put up some VERY sound advice. I ground a couple hundred of them and did all of them free-hand. I had several years of grinding under my belt, and found the free-hand Scandi grind to be VERY, VERY difficult to pull off. Just like Andy said, the first time it's laid to a stone, it will absolutely light up every little facet if the bevel isn't F-L-A-T.

I ruined about 10 blades before I felt like I had it down with enough confidence to do the ordered blades.

While I was in school this last time around, I TIG'd up a rest much like what Andy described making out of wood and micarta. I grabbed one of the old blades I had laying around and tried the rest. It made the bevel dead nuts flat and took a tiny fraction of the time to do compared to free-hand... and best of all... no stress!!! ;) :)

Sometimes you really gotta look at that working smarter versus harder thing. ;) :)

BTW- Just look at the Scandi ground knives Andy is kicking out of his shop and you will have no desire to wander from his advice!!! :thumbup: :cool: :)

Edited to add: montesa, I think your confusion comes from Andy saying a "jig." Only because most people think of a jig as something you clamp the blade to and then move/slide/rotate. He's talking about a tool rest (some folks would also call it a fixture)... but the tool rest is in a fixed position in front of the belt. The blade is held with your hands while it is laying against the rest, you push the blade up into the moving belt and then move and rotate the blade to achieve a grind that follows the edge profile. At least that's what I'm talking about with my rest, and I'm pretty confident that's what Andy is doing too. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Nick! Got some pics that should show this well.

20101124100_3366-vi.jpg


20101124100_3367-vi.jpg


And a couple of Scandi's I finished yesterday.

20101123100_3346-vi.jpg


20101123100_3353-vi.jpg


That last one is 3/32" thick 01. Talk about a wicked cutter. Scandi on 3/32 is scary. I've only used 01 for Scandi's. Basically ideal IMO. I zero them and have had none returned out of over 100. I've got customers asking for SS ones now. Did you use stainless for yours? Which ones worked best?

Raymond Richard said:
This might be to simple for most. Set platen to angle you want and clamp the blade to a good sized piece of angle iron. Make sure the angle iron sits flat on the rest.
Click to expand...

That totaly works. But, I don't like running my platten at a acute angle like that. Feels crowded to me, and I can't see my hands well enough. Probably a lot of better makers than me do it this way though. I just like the open freedom of the above way.
 
There is no easier way to do a scandi grind than by using the Bubble Jig.

I realize this is endorsing my own product; but its the truth.

Another plus for doing scandi grinds with this jig is you can change the pitch of the bevel by resetting the bubble. You can set a 10 or 12 or 15 degree angle or any other angle you desire and you can repeat the same grind each and every time. There is no heavy cumbersome apparatus involved; you are grinding freehand and can perform the twist that is needed to fashion the edge along the belly and tip of the blade. The jig weighs 9 ounces.
Its simple stupid, as someone posted a while back.

Happy grinding, Fred
 
Isn't it the thickness of the stock, being ground, that dictates the height of the grind lines?
If the stock is 1/4 inch thick and 1 inch wide; grinding at a controlled angle of 12 degrees; the width of the ground "edge" will always be the same. As the blade is sharpened, the width of the blade becomes more narrow until the blade disappears completely. If you can maintain the angle of approach the edge will be at a constant degree of sharpness until the blade is gone.
To make the blade sharper, grind more parallel to the platen. In other words a 12 degree flat grind will be more sharp than a 15 degree flat grind; grinding the same thickness of steel.

The tool rest jig fixture thingy, I see its possibilities; I don't like the idea of rotating a finished blade on any surface. You scratch more finished steel this way. I'm pretty clumsy though.:o

Scandi grind is a misnomer; it denotes region and this type of grind is more occupational than regional and should be called an Overly steep flat grind

Fred
 
this is great... very timely as I'm planning out some bushcrafters with scandi edges. I will try with the Bubble jig and fixed jig and see what comes out.

Andy.... I love your work and I know you from over at Paleo. Thank you for pointing out the importance of even bevels on those kind of knives. What have you done with the etching on that knife second from the bottom... the wood (wenge???) handled one? Or is that just forge scale?
 
Mossanimal said:
this is great... very timely as I'm planning out some bushcrafters with scandi edges. I will try with the Bubble jig and fixed jig and see what comes out.

Andy.... I love your work and I know you from over at Paleo. Thank you for pointing out the importance of even bevels on those kind of knives. What have you done with the etching on that knife second from the bottom... the wood (wenge???) handled one? Or is that just forge scale?
Click to expand...

That is what I call spalted 01 steel. Its whats under the forge scale. LOL.
 
it just looked too flat and ground to be left over forge scale...

anyway.... nice stuff. And thank for the scandi grind info. I'm making a jig today...
 
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