How can sellers protect themselves?

Thomas Linton

Thomas Linton

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Another thread has been discussing PayPal payment methods.

Several members raised the issue of protection for sellers given PayPal's pattern of favoring buyers in disputes with sellers.

So what say you? What are good practices that sellers might follow to protect their interests?
 
Thanks Thomas, this is a good start to an interesting topic.

In my opinion, protection starts with a set of pictures taken in a well lit area, in focus, and document the condition of the item being sold or traded. If there is a way to time stamp the pictures then that is even better.

Describe the item as accurately as possible. Don't use terms link "mint" to describe a knife that you carried and scratched the clip on. What might not be a big deal for you, may cause someone to get hypertension.

Document email conversations with the buyer. Ask them in writing if they are satisfied and request an answer/reply.
 
Speaking of "mint," AAPK sets out the following pocket knife description standards for discussion

National Knife Collectors Association also has standards.




Condition Description

Pristine mint: Knives in this category must be flawless, and must have additional characteristics that set them apart from mint. They could have an unusually good fit for example.

Mint: This would be a knife that has never been carried, never sharpened, never used, and does not have rust problems of any kind. Some collectors will classify a very old knife that has a few rust marks as mint (especially those made prior to WWII). The newer the knife gets from there, the less rust specs it must have to maintain its mint status. In addition, most Case knife collectors are a bit stricter on grading knives. An old Case knife with any rust mark would not be considered mint. Note: A knife that had rust, and was cleaned to look mint would be considered near mint or worse depending on how harshly it was cleaned.

Near Mint: There must be nothing wrong with a near mint knife. It should "walk and talk" and must have most of the original polish visible on the blades. Very light sharpening would be acceptable, but the blades must be full. It can have some light rust spots, but no deep rust pits. Some light carry scratches are permitted on the outside as well.

Excellent: Knives in this condition would include solid, lightly used knives. There may be a bit of blade wear (no more than 10%). Some tarnish and light pitting would be acceptable. Blades should snap well, and the tang mark should be clear.

Very Good: Knives in this category are generally fairly well used knives. There may be blade wear of up to 25%. The blades should still be sound, but one or more may be slow. The stamping should be readable, but may be faint. The handles may have cracks and wear, but shouldn't have major chipping. The knife might also have some rust pitting and tarnish.

Good: Knives in good condition must still be useable as a working knife. Blade wear may be between 25-50%. There might be chips in the handle or blade. Blades may be slow with deep pits and rust. You should still be able to make out the maker of the knife by shield or tang stamp.

Poor: A poor knife is generally only good for parts. The blades might be less than 50%, extra lazy or even broken. Tang marks are generally barely legible, and the handles may be chipped.

Junk: Anything less than poor. These knives would be pretty much worthless. May have a liner, back spring or bolster that would be salvageable for parts, but probably not even that.
Click to expand...

Agreed standards do not totally stop disagreements, but they help.
 
As stated above make sure your description is correct and make sure to list any blemishes on the blade, no matter how minor. If shipping via USPS, make sure you use signature confirmation. If the buyer claims "the knife never showed up", PayPal will only recognize Signature Confirmation when it comes to a dispute. If you used the regular Delivery confirmation in a situation like this, then you will be SOL.

Edit to add: Regarding the original post, I don't think there is a pattern of PayPal favoring buyers over sellers. IMHO, if you look closer, I'm willing to bet that most (if not all) of the sellers that lost a dispute did not describe the condition of the knife accurately or they didn't use Signature Confirmation when shipping the knife. As is goes, people who had a bad experience or didn't get their way tend to make more noise than those who had a favorable outcome.
 
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I had not seen that before Thomas, thanks for the heads up. I hope people will find that useful and help guide their descriptions.
 
Outside of eBay transactions, PayPal's buyer protection sucks. Seems as if, for every story about PayPal siding with a buyer, there's another about a buyer that lost. I try to be careful about what I buy; but I've received some subpar items. I don't take filing claims lightly - I think I've done it twice in over 15 yrs - but I've lost both times ($1600 + $2400). That's why I never use account balance or bank funding for anything over $200...everything goes on a card, now, so I have those protections and don't have to screw around with PayPal if there's an issue.

Unfortunately, the marketplace is a tough for sellers. There are too many people abusing the system - between buyer's remorse, screwing up the item, and groundless chargebacks, it often seems things are stacked against us. (No, I don't sell here.) Basically, as has been said, it's a matter of covering the bases and getting - and keeping - documentation.
 
OK, so here's my war story. I bought a khukuri described as "19" overall." Turns out, the seller meant 19" in circumference around the silhouette of the knife.

Despite documenting the convention on what "overall length" meant as to knives - and cars and other property, PP told me to pound salt.

I had paid PP with Discover. Discover told me only the seller was a Discover "customer" and I could pound salt. (I reported Discover to the federal regulators and Discover changed its mind.)

So I have a slightly different perspective on Paypal.


As a seller. how about weighing the knife and packing on camera so it can be matched to the shipping document?
 
The CYA aspect can easily get out of hand. That probably isn't necessary...until the first time somebody says you only shipped one of the two knives they bought, or sends back a box without the knife they were supposed to be returning.
 
Personally, I'm not set up to film myself packaging items for sale, driving to the PO, etc. Something I will do is take a picture of the receipt once I ship the knife. It contains the date the item shipped, the weight, tracking information, and the shipping method. I've emailed it to the buyer on several occasions.
hhmoore said:
The CYA aspect can easily get out of hand. That probably isn't necessary...until the first time somebody says you only shipped one of the two knives they bought, or sends back a box without the knife they were supposed to be returning.
Click to expand...

If Paypal requests a receipt and the weight shows what is likely an empty box, the person wronged will win.
 
I would also suggest that adequately packaging your knife with a bubble mailer, bubble wrap, tape, etc. Pretend it will treated as the ball in a game of rugby.
 
I recently bought my first knife from a private seller as opposed to a store. The seller, Mike 157 in this forum, wrapped the knife in bubble wrap. He then put the knife in the stout box the knife came in and wrapped the box in bubble wrap. He then put all of that into a box and cushioned the gaps with more bubble wrap. The shipping box was then wrapped in clear tape. He let me know exactly when it shipped and he gave me a tracking number. And all of this was after posting multiple photo's of the knife in his "for sale" thread and answering a pm I had regarding the knife.

He also gave me time to return the knife for a full refund if I was not satisfied with it. And, we are talking about a knife that sold for $100. Mike 157 serves as an example of a seller who did everything possible to increase the chance of a successful transaction, or to protect himself depending on your point of view.
 
I like to take pics of the knife, package and shipping label with tracking #showing, ON THE SCALES! This documents the date, address, item condition, and contents of the package. That's proof positive that you shipped the correct item to the correct person on the date stated. The only better option would be to video tape the knife being packages and sealed then posted.
 
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