How close is close enough on a custom order?

Whit

Whit

Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
729
I recently finished a custom order. The guy gave me his old knife and wanted one "just like it". My exact words were that the blade wouldn't be exactly the same, but as close as I could get it. Now I forged the blade, and did the best I could. The clip is little shorter on the one I made than his old one, but I thought it was close enough. I wouldn't have showed it to him if I didn't. Well to him it "wasn't exactly the same shape" as the old one. Now I am generally not only a nice guy, but also a terrible businessman, so I told him that in this case, I would start over. Now I'm stuck with a pretty ugly blade that I probably can't sell, and nothing to show for the materials and labor that went into that knife.

It just donned on me, this was probably one of those "deposit" moments huh? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

At one point do you tell a guy, "hey that's just how I make them!!!" ???

Any thoughts?
 
whit
where you didn't take a deposit, you can back out if you don't think you can do it the way he wants it. he may just be one of those guys you can't make happy.
to reproduce a knife is a bit`h if you're not use to it..
if you don't do it the way he wants you could be out even more money

I take a deposit for my reasons I've gone over many times here, I don't use it as a garenty for me to keep money,

I tell the customer, (unless it's a repro bowie that has to very very close,)that I have my little bit of sole that will go into it and it will show, I do not care to copy an other mans work unless he's been long gone.
if he wants it as a reproduction he will pay more for it. a lot more...
just my 2 cents..:)

edited to add
in rereading
My exact words were that the blade wouldn't be exactly the same
Click to expand...
did you have that in writing? or does he remeber that siad?
if you are fairly close you could try holding him to the bargan...
he may have gotten cold feet too?

I'll add...
deposit or not I tell my customer he can return it for a full refund, as long as it's not something I feel I can't sell, it's got to be very weird though and I would have had to agree to making it in the first place too
so I'd have a lot of responsablity in it..
 
I suggest that you post a picture of the knife. Allow your fellow forumites to determine the marketability of the knife. Someone is bound to find the design somewhat attractive, regardless of how ugly you believe it is.

If the gentleman required a precise duplicate of his knife, he should have explicitly stated that the forged blade be an exact replica of the original knife. If you made it clear to him that the blade "wouldn't be exactly the same," and he accepted that fact, then you are not responsible. Perhaps you should make it perfectly clear to future customers that your forging techniques may result in a slight deviation from the dimensions of the intended design. Otherwise, I would not take it upon myself to contract with a customer unless I was completely confident in my ability to fulfill their requests with some measure of exactness. Also, requesting a deposit would be advisable.

If you can't do it as he desires, try backing out of the deal. Otherwise, start over and try to get it right. If possible, forge it larger and then bring it to shape on a grinder.

Just my humble opinion,
TheSurvivalist
 
Orders can be a pain some times, thats for sure. When someone tells me they want a knife like another knife, I tell them I will try to get it close, but it won't be exact. If they want an exact replica then they need to get someone else. I don't think I've ever made 2 knives exactly alike and I don't need the pressure to try and do so.

I believe I would tell the person that this one is probably as close to the other as you can get and if he doesn't want it then he needs to find another maker. Who's to say he won't find something wrong with the next one.
But thats just my opinion.

Good luck,

Bill
 
Ryan, if you can, please post a picture. I'm curious to see how much difference there really is between the two blades.
 
I've been stuck with two like that over the years...and felt like delivering them thru the "buyer's" car hood.

My number one rule: "Don't make anything you don't think you can sell if the customer backs out"

I've since told people when they send a design..."I can make something similar...but not exact."

Sounds like your buyer decided he didnt want it before you were done making it.
 
Well alright, I guess it's to be judged by a jury of my peers. This is the only pic I have of both knives. Mine is the top one. The length of the clip is a little off, and the width of the overall blade is off a little. The overall style of knife is the same. Probably poor communication on my part.

What do y'all think?
 
I think ya bought that one Ryan.

Nice looking knife though, sell it to someone else.

Looks to me like enough disparity between the two, where I would say nay, they are not the same. JM2C
 
Whit said:
Well alright, I guess it's to be judged by a jury of my peers. This is the only pic I have of both knives. Mine is the top one. The length of the clip is a little off, and the width of the overall blade is off a little. The overall style of knife is the same. Probably poor communication on my part.

What do y'all think?
Click to expand...

whit
if you want honest.
I see a vast difference in the two,,, though I think yours is a better job....

plunge, grind line, and finish of the antler, are key, differences other than the profile as you mention.

this is not one I would even try to do , I'm not sure I'd want to go that,, lets say rustic in a copy. JMO :(
did I say I like yours better :)
 
Thanks guys. Just what I needed to hear. I've just returned from wasting a whole bunch of 5160, I'm doing it pure stock removal this time. No idea if I'm wasting my time or not, but it's all fun anyways.
 
Whit, you made a nice knife. Yes, I agree that it doesn't represent the other knife very much, but like was already said, I like yours better as far as knives go. Hang in there!
 
My 2¢ on customs...I don't!

I make what I make and that's it. In the past, I have taken custom orders, the blade was exactly the same as the drawing, I mean exactly. We then get the "I was thinking the blade wouldn't be so broad" as it is it. Lay it on the paper and it is exactly the same size. I have even used handle material they supplied, stabilized at that, I would get, "It's a little lighter than I thought it would be."

No more. I am fortunate enough where I don't have to make a knife to eat. Many full timers don't have that luxury but I do, so I don't!

Craig
 
I haven't done any custome knife orders but I've done a lot with custome machines and software both as buyer and as contractor.

The writen specifications are everything. When possible mid-work/mid-design reviews are also a good idea so flying changes can be made when they are least expensive to make. Once a buyer agrees to a design, they own it which also needs to be stated up front. If the project can be costed in sections...design, time and materials, however, then you can get paid for what you did even if the project is canceled midstream.

When there's an already existing drawing or a sample as in this case, the reproduction should meet the drawing or sample within pre-stated tolerances. Draw the sample and put tolerances on demensions that the buyer indicate as critical. Then the reproduction either meets the specification or it doesn't and some common measuring tools are all you need to know. It's a little more involved but the same can be done with color and texture.

I used to work with switch buttons and bezels for the automotive industry. Some were backlit, had graphics and/or texturing. We had specs on things like color, gloss and so on. Sometimes we'd deliver samples and the customer would reject them even though we had measurement data to show that it was exactly what they asked for. In those cases the spec was changed and we started over but on the customers dime.

I don't see why the principles should be any differnt for a knife though the implimentation may be a bit different.
 
Whit, for what it's worth when trying to replicate another knife it might be easier to go straight stock removal. I know that's anathema for some of you guys but it does give great control over the profile of a knife.

Like the other guys I'd say your rendition is much nicer but they don't match. I can imagine your customer saying "not close enough." I hate deals like that, and I've had my share too. I have ended up selling everything though, so don't feel like you're completely out of luck. Someone will buy it.

Good luck, and keep pounding.
 
I appreciate the thoughts guys. In particular, it's nice to know that most of you have dealt with the same thing, and taken measures to avoid it in happening again. I guess I'll be much more clear in the future if I get a request like this. I'm going straight stock removal on this one now. Plexiglass template, scribe the lines, all of that.

Now I just need to find another Stag crown with a pronounced curve like that. Unfortunately, they don't grow on trees, only on animals. Anyone have one laying around for trade?

If he doesn't like the next one, I'm going with Mark's recommendation.......stick him in the neck!:D
 
Ryan,
I may have a crown with that curve. How big around do you need? I'll check when I get home this evening. If I find one, I'll let you know Monday.
Rick
 
Rick, it's just over 3" around. That would be great if you could check your stuff. Thanks.

Ryan
 
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