How common is it to find a traditional with NO blade play?

wundergussy

wundergussy

Joined
May 14, 2013
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I just dove into the world of traditionals with a number of nice pieces (all GEC/Northwoods). Most have a little bit of play; in fact, the only one to be TOTALLY fixed-blade solid is the cheapest (Bull Nose). I get the sense that it kinda varies piece to piece. I also am coming from the modern-folder, Ti-Framelock world where a lot of emphasis (too much) is put on blade-play. I guess my question is, Is Minor Blade-Play just a part of traditionals? I know in real-world applications of these small knives a bit of play doesn't matter, and unlike a framelock is not a sign of a bad lock... Any wisdom from you long-timers would be appreciated.
 
Good question - interested to see the responses to this as well.
 
When I have experienced blade play in traditional knives it is usually side to side and usually can be corrected by tightening up the pivot pin by squeezing gently in a vise or a couple of gentle taps with a ball peen hammer. If you are talking vertical play it may be caused by a soft or weak spring.
 
I would say its pretty common to not have blade play in traditionals. Out of the 20 I own I have only sent one into repair at Case because it had terrible forward and backward play. They sent it back and it was perfect. I have a whittler and a stockman that I use for whittling and a couple of the blades on them have a bit of play but they get used pretty hard. My swayback jack has a bit of play which it came with and I'm not upset about it enough to send it in. If it gets worse then I will sure as heck send it back in.
 
I'm honestly surprised by threads like this. I would think most people's first few knives would be traditionals. I got my first traditionals from my grandfather and they were among my first knives.

From the older carbon blade traditionals that I find at flea markets, they'll have side to side. I'm honestly am not surprised since they're pinned and pinned tends to develop play over time. Neglect from those knives are part of it. Some of my nicer Schrade and Case don't have much plays if any at all. Whitedog is right about fixing the side to side.
 
Some of mine have very slight side to side play. It's hardly noticeable even when I look for it. I don't notice it at all in use. None of mine have vertical play in the open position.
 
I consider excessive blade play in a new knife to be a flaw. Like a proud spring on a pattern which should have sunk or flush joints. Or blades that sit proud, either opened or closed, or aren't crinked. IMHO it is a sign of a knife which was simply assembled, not cutlered. That said, minor flaws in new production knives are to be expected to an extent. They are not made in the old English or even German methods. And at the pricepoints the consumer market demands, construction and finishing has to be accomplished as quickly as possible to minimize per unit expenses. There are some low production cutleries left which do take the time, but their pricepoints are not competetive in the same market. IMHO, expecting the highest quality at the lowest price is not realistic, and bound to disappoint sooner or later.
 
SAKs come up as trad in some sense, and none of mine have ever had any play at all. Even with some light prying on alox models. From the case models I've owned, none had any play when purchased new (as expected). I suppose some can develop over time, but it doesn't diminish usability and can be remedied. From the fishing type knives with a clip, scaler, bottle opener, etc. I had as a boy, none had play when new, but mine where cheapos from the 70s and I don't recall and they are long gone.

note - I only have one modern OHO and it has for/aft play. There is some s2s, but I can eliminate it by tightening up the pivot (then friction becomes an issue though). (It was from a trade and I've used it to process wood a fair amount when camping. This movement is not indicative of craftsmenship from that manufacturer so I suspect it was not always treated kindly.)
 
In my opinion after 50+ years of using knives, blade play is the most over-blown topic of discussion you can find. A small amount has virtually nothing to do with the function of a folding knife, and the more critical people are of this inconsequential "flaw," the more they are likely to be disappointed. If I can't feel any movement when using the knife, then it doesn't have any play as far as I'm concerned. This grabbing the tip of the blade to the absolute maximum of mechanical advantage and then twisting the knife to discover the wobble is silly. No one uses a knife in this fashion, so what difference does it make. Unless it has wobble during normal use, then pay it no mind.
 
None of the recent knives I have have blade-play, and few of the old ones I come across have any either. It's generally very simple to redress side-to-side bladeplay, as has been stated. With Swinden Key construction, I don't know how to fix it. I also have an old tortoise-shell penknife with some play, but I'm not sure I want to risk damaging the covers fixing it.
 
gdtrfb said:
SAKs come up as trad in some sense, and none of mine have ever had any play at all. Even with some light prying on alox models. From the case models I've owned, none had any play when purchased new (as expected). I suppose some can develop over time, but it doesn't diminish usability and can be remedied. From the fishing type knives with a clip, scaler, bottle opener, etc. I had as a boy, none had play when new, but mine where cheapos from the 70s and I don't recall and they are long gone.

note - I only have one modern OHO and it has for/aft play. There is some s2s, but I can eliminate it by tightening up the pivot (then friction becomes an issue though). (It was from a trade and I've used it to process wood a fair amount when camping. This movement is not indicative of craftsmenship from that manufacturer so I suspect it was not always treated kindly.)
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Never had blade play on any SAK I've owned in 42 years or so...the older used Schrade/Case knives I buy off e(bleep) rarely have any either.
 
of the ~80 traditional knives I have owned (GECs, Case (old and new), Queen, Bertram, Robert Klaas, SAKS misc. older knives), none have had even the slightest amount of blade play in any direction, I never worry about it, and am surprised that others in this forum encounter it so often.
 
Codger_64 said:
IMHO, expecting the highest quality at the lowest price is not realistic, and bound to disappoint sooner or later.
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I agree with you, but that's not germane to the conversation here. The OP's knives are all GECs, not economy line models.

I'd say blade play is very common with traditional slipjoints. While cleaning my slipjoints I once checked to see which knives had blade play. I discovered that I could induce a little play in nearly all of them. After that eye opener I stopped worrying about it.

That's only for a little bit of play, a wiggle if you will. I've had knives with blades that wobbled so badly I could barely stand to own them, much less use them.

- Christian
 
kamagong said:
I agree with you, but that's not germane to the conversation here. The OP's knives are all GECs, not economy line models.

I'd say blade play is very common with traditional slipjoints. While cleaning my slipjoints I once checked to see which knives had blade play. I discovered that I could induce a little play in nearly all of them. After that eye opener I stopped worrying about it.

That's only for a little bit of play, a wiggle if you will. I've had knives with blades that wobbled so badly I could barely stand to own them, much less use them.

- Christian
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Please do note that I prefaced my statement with "excessive". Some blade play is normal even in the best constructed knives or you won't be able to open and close the blade. I don't own a GEC, and have no idea of the price or overall quality (they must be good to be so popular), but minor flaws are to be expected.
 
I would say that some amount of blade play has to be expected with use when we're talking about knives with a pivot pin peened flush with bolsters.

On the other hand, the Opinel seems to be nearly impervious to developing blade play even under very hard use. a) The pivot pins aren't peen flush. b) The pin is peened to circular ring, not separate bolsters. c) The camming action of the lock ring removes what little (if any) blade that is present.

Under normal hard use (hard cutting forces, significant lateral or twisting forces but low closing forces), it's the closest to feeling like a fixed blade to me among all of the traditional folding knives I've used.


EDC Pair by Pinnah, on Flickr
 
Thanks for the replies all! Yes, I am talking about side-to-side, and it is pretty minimal. Just something I can feel (not, like, an audible clicking). Again, I am not even saying it bothers me, I am just coming from a knife sect (modern Ti-framelocks) where there's such an emphasis on lock-up. All are correct that the slight amount of wiggle matters not in any application of real-world use. It's jsut that I am new to these types of knives, and was wondering if I got a weird group of blades, or if I shouldn't worry about it.
 
I'd have to say that I have had very, very few new slip joints with discernible blade play in my lifetime. I just don't think a new knife should have any discernible play.
Sooner or later, if they are used, all slip joints will develop some play. It's the nature of the beast. Since that play is going to develop over time, why should I as a consumer accept a knife that is already exhibiting wear?
I understand that it's a fairly simple thing to remedy. I've done it on knives that I've used and that have loosened up too much. I just don't think I should have to fix something when I didn't even use it yet.
 
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