How common is it to find a traditional with NO blade play?

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black mamba said:
In my opinion after 50+ years of using knives, blade play is the most over-blown topic of discussion you can find. A small amount has virtually nothing to do with the function of a folding knife, and the more critical people are of this inconsequential "flaw," the more they are likely to be disappointed. If I can't feel any movement when using the knife, then it doesn't have any play as far as I'm concerned. This grabbing the tip of the blade to the absolute maximum of mechanical advantage and then twisting the knife to discover the wobble is silly. No one uses a knife in this fashion, so what difference does it make. Unless it has wobble during normal use, then pay it no mind.
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Bingo.

The only play that disappoints me, when using a knife, is if I can actually feel the blade move laterally with my hand on the handle only. I notice this sometimes, often when sharpening or stropping a blade. I sometimes feel the blade sort of 'clunk' one way or the other, when exerting the kind of lateral pressure used on a strop (not excessively heavy, in other words). If I don't feel it under that circumstance, I have no complaints about any perceived or 'seen' movement of the tip otherwise. Functionally, there's nothing wrong at all with a knife such as this.

Same applies to vertical movement with the blade open. If I notice that 'clunk' when exerting downward cutting pressure, or if the blade tends to want to close too easily when stropping, that's what I consider to be a little too 'loose'. Otherwise, I don't worry about it.

The sort of looseness described as above, I don't consider to be 'common'. Of all the traditional knives I have, I don't think I've seen it in more than maybe 5% of them, if that.


David
 
I have 9 GEC pocket knives and none have any blade play. Now they're new or only a couple years old, so not too shocking. I would expect some minor blade play in old knives that have seen a lot of carry and use.

I use my knives for slicing and cutting, not prying or whittling so they show no signs of play at this point but as said they're not old. GEC's are high quality as far as production knives go, so this is something I come to expect at $80-$100+ price range. For a $30 knife I'd be a bit more lenient.

A quality pocket knife should have virtually zero or very minimal blade play IMHO. If used properly for what it was designed for a quality pocket knife should last a lifetime assuming proper care and maintenance.
 
It certainly occurs and it's better if it isn't there from new, that's for me disappointing. But it doesn't impair the use at all.
Price doesn't seem to play much role in this either, random but not common. There are worse things in a knife...:eek::D
 
I've had mixed experiences with new knives. Some have a little play and others none that I could detect.
I was always under the impression that is wasn't an exact science since the pivot pins are all set by hand and are not screws ( like a modern folder).

While where on the subject , what about using washers? I have a few traditional knives that look as though they might have washers in the pivot area.
These do seem to work well ... the blades don't get rub marks from opening and closing. They just seem to fit better. Also Case does something with their high-end Bose knives , I don't know if they use washers, but they sure look like they do.
 
I think a cutler with good attention to detail will produce a knife with hardly (if any) blade play, but think about what we are looking at. A steel blade(s) sandwiched between thin strips of metal often brass (but maybe some other metal) and a couple of bolsters. Then you take a pin (usually nickel) and pound it to expand and hold everything in place. If used, I think you will eventually have some play. I'd think that temperature variations will have some effect on the joint as well.

Slipjoints have been like this for ever. Unless it really just wasn't put together care, I wouldn't worry about it too much...... unless I paid a bunch of money for a new knife.
 
Woodrow F Call said:
I think a cutler with good attention to detail will produce a knife with hardly (if any) blade play, but think about what we are looking at. A steel blade(s) sandwiched between thin strips of metal often brass (but maybe some other metal) and a couple of bolsters. Then you take a pin (usually nickel) and pound it to expand and hold everything in place. If used, I think you will eventually have some play. I'd think that temperature variations will have some effect on the joint as well.

Slipjoints have been like this for ever. Unless it really just wasn't put together care, I wouldn't worry about it too much...... unless I paid a bunch of money for a new knife.
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Woodrow, I think your on the right track. My sense (could be wrong) is that slip joints arose as companions to fixed blades. Modern flippers like OP is used to have been made to be concealable fixed blade replacement. That's a poor over simplification, obviously. But you get my drift. When I think of real hard use traditional folders, I think of thing with super big pivots like a sod buster or non flush pins like the Opinel. Big folding hunters like the Buck 110 work fine as hunters, but they'll open up if pushed hard.

The flat peened pin construction just has limits that need to be understood. Plenty strong for most things. Nothing wrong with that and a lot good.
 
pinnah said:
Woodrow, I think your on the right track. My sense (could be wrong) is that slip joints arose as companions to fixed blades. Modern flippers like OP is used to have been made to be concealable fixed blade replacement. That's a poor over simplification, obviously. But you get my drift. When I think of real hard use traditional folders, I think of thing with super big pivots like a sod buster or non flush pins like the Opinel. Big folding hunters like the Buck 110 work fine as hunters, but they'll open up if pushed hard.

The flat peened pin construction just has limits that need to be understood. Plenty strong for most things. Nothing wrong with that and a lot good.
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Yup. If you need a really tough folder, you really need a fixed blade, IMO.
 
black mamba said:
If I can't feel any movement when using the knife, then it doesn't have any play as far as I'm concerned.
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This. ↑
If I have to grab the blade and wiggle it to notice the movement, then it really isn't there.

And based on that definition of "blade play", I don't think I've noticed any blade play in any of the traditional slipjoint folders I've purchased in the last few years.
 
That's actually the definition of a mechanical assembly : if it has no play at all, it won't work. That's why I find quite amazing that some slipjoints have no discernable play (OK, wiggle hard enough and you're bound to feel an itsy bitsy...). It's a proof of how carefully (or successfully) it was assembled. Just received a Case Peanut and that little guy has no play. I'm delighted !
 
It depends upon the price paid for the knife and its construction. Any knife over $40 should have no blade play out of the box. Lockbacks should not develop play when locked until they get old, while a slipjoint may develop it sooner. However, some lockbacks seem to have inherent blade play problems due to design.

A slipjoint with brass and nickle silver construction might develop play earlier than one with steel liners and bolsters. However, that would depend upon the pivot construction. I have a don hanson warncliffe trapper with "extra strong" contruction, meaning thicker steel pivot and thicker brass liners, maybe a stronger spring, and it's 30 yo, been used hard and has no blade play.

I don't know of a custom or factory maker that will not fix blade play as a warranty repair.
 
fatcorgi said:
of the ~80 traditional knives I have owned (GECs, Case (old and new), Queen, Bertram, Robert Klaas, SAKS misc. older knives), none have had even the slightest amount of blade play in any direction, I never worry about it, and am surprised that others in this forum encounter it so often.
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I am really new to traditional s as well. So far I have a Case Russlock (play in all directions), a GEC whaler (no play), and a GEC lockback (play in all directions). I just assumbed the hand made screwless production would lend itself to knives with looser tolerances than you would see in precise machined knives (modern style).
 
knarfeng said:
This. ↑
If I have to grab the blade and wiggle it to notice the movement, then it really isn't there.

And based on that definition of "blade play", I don't think I've noticed any blade play in any of the traditional slipjoint folders I've purchased in the last few years.
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Anybody coming from a "tactical/modern" knife world when they refer to blade play they mean being able to grab the blade and feeling ANY wiggle when moved side to side or up and down. That kind of movement is generally considered unacceptable in that world.
 
xiuxiu1313 said:
Anybody coming from a "tactical/modern" knife world when they refer to blade play they mean being able to grab the blade and feeling ANY wiggle when moved side to side or up and down. That kind of movement is generally considered unacceptable in that world.
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As has been mentioned, different technologies, different mechanisms, different design goals.
 
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