How "deeply" does the blade need to be ground?

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Nov 18, 2006
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Some knife blades are ground so the blade tapers from the cutting edge to the other side (I'm not sure what the right terminology is here) - other knives leave some "flat" metal (unground) on the blade.

What are the pros/cons?

It seems that the blade would be stronger if more material would be left behind. But "hunting" knives seem to be deeply ground.

Thanks
 
If a knife is ground from the edge to the spine, I believe that's called a "full grind", advertised as full flat grind or full hollow grind. That's my understanding - I'm not a knifemaker.

The knives that are ground, say for example, halfway up the height of the blade are leaving steel there for other structural reasons. With more steel in the spinal area of the blade, it is more robust and might better handle techniques such as batoning, prying, chopping, twisting, etc.

Hunting knives, I suspect, are sometimes fully hollow ground (meaning concave grinding following the contour of the grinding wheel) because they are most generally designed for slicing and caping. They are sharpened with less of an edge bevel because they need to be razor sharp for skinning, and are asked less often to chop or baton. The thinner edge will last longer while skinning but is more prone to chipping and dulling if asked to do what a more shallow blade grind is better suited for.

This is my understanding of the different grinds and is what I use as a basis for determining what grind I want when buying a knife. That doesn;t mean I'm right! Ha!...but I suspect it's pretty close :)
 
Quick lesson in this picture (top to bottom):
Full hollow grind
Hollow saber grind
Flat saber grind
Full flat grind



The saber ground blades have more cross-sectional area for the same blade width, making them stronger (assuming all else is equal). My own preference is for full flat. Full hollow is better for shallow slicing, skinning and such, but the flat grind is less fragile while maintaining good slicing ability.
 
Add in: less grinding, less expense.

So there are a lot of swedge ground blades on the market on the low end, and full flat toward the high end. Hollow ground is a production "in between."

Not a hard and fast rule, but something to look at along with the type of steel and the tempering. All three should be compatible with the type of cutting you plan to use the knife for.
 
By "swedge ground" - I assume this mean a grind that does not go all the way back to the spine. I can see that grinding all the way to the spine is more work, but what advantage does this give to the blade?

Also, since you mentioned hollow vs. flat grind - what are the advantages of each? Seems that hunting knives are often hollow ground - why is that?

Thanks a lot for your insight.
 
full height grind means a lower angle and better cutting performance compared to saber ground. Saber grinds leave more metal in the blade for greater strength, though I think it would be smarter to just use more appropriate steel instead of leaving a lot of the wrong stuff in the cross section to make up for poor characteristics.

hollow ground blades are thinner behind the edge than a comparable flat ground blade-if the hollow ground is properly done, since that is the advantage it provides. The thinner your stock behind the edge, the easier your cutting. Flat grinds, again, leave more material behind the edge for strength. There is also wedging, splitting, shallow vs deep cutting, etc. to discuss-but it starts to get beyond me quickly :D

I also think aesthetics play a significant role in grind choices, flat grinds often look rather plain.
 
The top knife in the picture above is about 3 mm thick at the spine, and about 1 mm thick at the mid-point between edge and spine. It is like a straight razor for shallow slicing tasks, but if you are cutting through something thicker than the width of the blade, the drag increases greatly. The thick spine tends to wedge on deep cuts. Forget any thought of twisting motions when cutting, you'll break a large piece right out of the blade. In spite of being a fairly inexpensive knife, it is the sharpest one I own.

The bottom blade is full flat grind, better steel, not quite as sharp, and sees a lot more use. The flat grind allows it to make deeper slices with little increase in effort, with much less tendency to wedge in the cut. The blade is thicker at mid-point and slightly thinner at the spine than the top blade. It is also the most expensive knife in the picture. As has been mentioned, full flat grinds require more grinding, so the cost of manufacturing increases.

The hollow saber grind , like the full hollow grind, is great for shallow slicing, but tends to wedge even more quickly. It is very sharp, and works well on thin materials. The saber grind relieves most of my worries about twisting motions when cutting, as there is much less leverage due to the smaller distance from the edge to the full thickness portion of the blade.

The flat saber grind is, at least for me, the workhorse/beater grind of the bunch. It requires more force to slice since the angle of the grind is wider, but the flat grind means the material is being wedged apart at a constant rate, where a hollow grind has an accelerating rate (the deeper the cut, the wider the angle the material is pushed apart).

Overall, I prefer the full flat grind as I feel it is the best compromise of strength and slicing ability, but it is not unusual to find me carrying a number of knives with different blade shapes and grinds, so that I can pick the best combination for the task at hand rather than compromising. ;)
 
what is that top knife?

I wish I could tell you :o The only markings are:
440 STAINLESS
JAPAN
on one side, and
HANDMADE with an M inside a star on the other.

I have had it for over twenty years, and I don't even remember where I bought it anymore.
 
Great information.

I think that the full flat grind makes the most sense. I'm not worried about the strength of the material since I'm going for a handmade knife using the best steel.

This clarifies a lot.

Thanks to all.
 
I like full flat. If I have a full flat custom, I would ask for full flat on the right side and a slight full height hollow on the left side (like certain Japanese kitchen knives for right handers).

I like hollow so that future sharpenings doesn't thicken the edge (like in full flat).
 
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