How Do Charlows and the Northfield 77 Barlows Compare?

[Cory Hess]

Evan, do you see Charlie as riding on Dan Burke's coattails?

 

[jkulysses]

In terms of build quality, both knives are superb, but I do much prefer the steel frames on the TCs for their added stability and traditional look. For the aesthetics, I also lean towards the TC for a variety of reasons.

Here is what I find to be the BIGGEST difference between the two:

The TC is an original design with Charlie's heart and soul poured into it, and I find that to be clearer with each run he puts out. The 77 barlow lacks that soul, and (to me) just feels like an unoriginal rip-off of an extremely popular, and market tested design. When I unwrapped the sawcut sheepsfoot 77 I ordered, I was overwhelmed with that feeling, and it just ruined the knife for me. The next day it moved on to someone else.

I think I remember finding a little piece of cloth tucked in with the knife... Looked to me like it was a piece of Charlie's coattail...

This post is a little ridiculous and disrespectful towards Mike, I'm going to stop there.

 

[avoidspam]

Wow! A divisive topic indeed. The TC has reached legendary status it seems, helped by relative scarcity..... Worth noting that both Charlie and Mike have kept a diplomatic silence, I would too!

Maintenance wise, how can a knife with steel bolsters and liners need less tlc than one with nickel silver? OK, I'll have to buff the bolsters once in a while but other than that....

Also, not sure what stability means. I can't vouch for the #77's with Blackwood covers but the bone ones have no movement/flex and feel rock solid.

Sam

 

[rma100]

This post is a little ridiculous and disrespectful towards Mike, I'm going to stop there.

:thumbup:

Seems to me they're all riding on Samuel Barlow's coattails. That's why there are so many different Traditional Patterns, everybody has different tastes, Cutlers express they're ideas differently. If there is a pattern you're not too fond of, move on. Find one you like.

Seems I've seen a similar piece of cloth in a bunch of "Beerlows".

 

[esnyx]

In this post and my last post, I am more specifically referring to the sheepsfoot and clip 77 barlows with blackwood and sawcut handles.

Harsh dood!

I may have been a little harsh, but I can't help how I feel about 'em. What bothers me about it isn't the fact that its a GEC made barlow, but that it is SO similar to the TC. When I unwrapped the knife, I could've almost thought it was a TC. Seeing the knife in person made me realize just HOW similar they are, and just how many aspects of the design were "borrowed" from the TC. It's not like there aren't a thousand different aspects of a knife that can be changed to establish a significant difference in the design.

To Esnyx:

And Charlie's knives remind me of old Russell Barlows, I wouldn't say he ripped them off though.

They are all interpretations of a classic pattern, in my humble opinion.

The TCs may remind you of a Russell barlow, and other old barlows, but I think that was Charlie's purpose in creating them. Besides, Russell's were made 100 years ago, and TC's are barely 2 years old... The TC is a revival of those old knives, what is the 77? A revival of the TC?

If I make a barlow tomorrow that is 3 3/8" closed, has a 1095 long pull spear blade with a cut swedge, stainless liners and bolsters, saw cut brown scales, a single thread on the rounded bolsters, with "E" and "N" layered vertically for the bolster stamp, would there be any doubt that my design was almost completely based off of the TC? Now, what if I took that design and placed a high numbered SFO order to the same cutlery that made the TC, would that seem fair?? It really doesn't seem fair to Charlie, and what he has done with the TC barlow.

Since this thread is about comparing the two, lets discuss the differences.

The 77 has nickel liners and bolsters, a slightly narrower swell to the end of the handle, a rounded butt, and 1/4" added to the size.

I understand that there is the wharnie blade and other handle materials offered on the 77, but can you really deny that the sheepsfoot and clip 77s don't look almost exactly like the TCs?

Sorry about the rant, folks. I do not mean come off as an arse, or as overly disrespectful, but this has really been bugging me for a while. I can't be the only one who sees the extreme similarities between the two.

I do not mean to start any fights, but I just really felt like this had to be said.

 

[knifeswapper]

Whoever made the mini-trapper should be hung until dead!!

My problem with the barlow has always been that the 3 1/2" was a bit small and the grandaddy was way too big.

First I was ridiculed because the knife I was making was not a traditional barlow; and now because I am riding the coattail of the standard 3 1/2" barlow. I think I said then and I will go ahead and repeat it for clarity. I want to make knives that people want, whether Mr. Barlow would approve it or someone can't stand to look at it because of sympathy feelings to another contractor is of little issue to me. The run of TC barlows that just ran right behind the #77 actually sold out quicker than any other release - thus I doubt I am doing any damage to the "original". I love Charlie and count him as a friend, but it did not occur to me that anything with a long bolster should be off limits.

 

[kamagong]

I can't be the only one who sees the extreme similarities between the two.

It's just you. Both lineups are barlows. There is only so much you can change in the interest of style and still remain true to the type. Check out the #25s. GEC tried the re-invent the barlow, so to speak. No dice. GEC might call them barlows, but you'll see them referred to as WLSTs (weird little stubby things) around these parts.

I don't know why you are getting so worked up. Charlie loves knives. That's why he put so much of himself into these Charlows. He's probably tickled pink that the interest in barlows has picked up so much that the market supports other SFOs. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a couple of #77s tucked in the safe with the rest of his barlow collection.

I don't think I've ever seen Mike deny Charlie's work as the inspiration for his lineup of barlows. Not that he could, those in the know are well aware of Charlie Campagna's efforts in reviving long ignored patterns.

As to using GEC to manufacture their knives, I think it's great. Mike is using the premier cutlery firm to increase the number of barlows available, so we know they're good. And GEC gets more work thrown their way. I think it's a win-win.

 

[rma100]

Actually, I think the 25 Barlow is more true in size to the $1.99 Imperial Barlows on the big card at the Feed Store when I was a kid. Except it has GEC Quality.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Mike is a great dealer and promoter of slipjoints. Charlie is another great dealer and promoter of slipjoints. GEC was lucky to take designs from both men and put them to steel. We are lucky as the end users to get these knives. I don't see the 77 as a Johnny Come Lately, I see it as a great design. Keeping the industry in the past will ensure it's death.

 

[esnyx]

It's just you. Both lineups are barlows. There is only so much you can change in the interest of style and still remain true to the type.

Really?

I have absolutely no problem with there being more than one type of barlow, traditional or not. Shoot, I think there SHOULD be more barlows, but does there have to be one SO similar?

 

[silenthunterstudios]

People go insane for the 15 and 77 patterns, especially the barlows. Frenzy comes to mind.

 

[kamagong]

The similarity is what makes them barlows.

Long, stamped bolster - check
Sawcut bone - check

The two knives are different sizes. The stamps are different too. They both sport clip blades, but the clips are hardly the same.

They are sufficiently different that I feel you are making much ado about nothing.

 

[btmccutcheon]

I don't know why you are getting so worked up. Charlie loves knives. That's why he put so much of himself into these Charlows. He's probably tickled pink that the interest in barlows has picked up so much that the market supports other SFOs. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a couple of #77s tucked in the safe with the rest of his barlow collection.

No offence to Charlie, but if he puts his name on a scout, I'm going back to carrying a Leatherman. Barlows have gotten too crazy to keep up with.

 

[SCWillson]

Whoever made the mini-trapper should be hung until dead!!

My problem with the barlow has always been that the 3 1/2" was a bit small and the grandaddy was way too big.

First I was ridiculed because the knife I was making was not a traditional barlow; and now because I am riding the coattail of the standard 3 1/2" barlow. I think I said then and I will go ahead and repeat it for clarity. I want to make knives that people want, whether Mr. Barlow would approve it or someone can't stand to look at it because of sympathy feelings to another contractor is of little issue to me. The run of TC barlows that just ran right behind the #77 actually sold out quicker than any other release - thus I doubt I am doing any damage to the "original". I love Charlie and count him as a friend, but it did not occur to me that anything with a long bolster should be off limits.

Mike, I love the 77 and hope you'll do another run soon.

I have wanted a barlow since I first saw a Charlow here at BF, but I have been unable to get Charlow despite nearly a year of trying. So I will certainly not comp!ain if you have finally enabled me to get my first Barlow. Your SFO is equal to one of Charlie's, and it had the advantage of being available. As far as I'm concerned you didn't take anything from Charlie since he has no Charlows available anyway. So keep 'em comin'.

 

[TurkishChubs]

Its one thing to say that you feel they are the same knife or say you don't like it compared to other knives, but to say he is riding his coattails, his knife had no soul and its an unoriginal rip-off ?? Ouch, that is really harsh and not cool.

That being said we should problem get back on the topic before a mod comes.

 

[btmccutcheon]

Mike, I love the 77 and hope you'll do another run soon.

I have wanted a barlow since I first saw a Charlow here at BF, but I have been unable to get Charlow despite nearly a year of trying. So I will certainly not comp!ain if you have finally enabled me to get my first Barlow. Your SFO is equal to one of Charlie's, and it had the advantage of being available. As far as I'm concerned you didn't take anything from Charlie since he has no Charlows available anyway. So keep 'em comin'.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree completely! Ditto! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Looking through boxes of Remington spearpoint jacks from the 1930s, next to a few Russell barlows under a case at a knife show, it comes to mind that Charlie and Mike are just adding to the great knives that have come down the pike over the years. Russell, then Remington, then Charlie, then Mike, making some great knives. For what were originally throwaway knives, they have come a long way.

Let's not sully them.

 

[bleh]

Really?

I have absolutely no problem with there being more than one type of barlow, traditional or not. Shoot, I think there SHOULD be more barlows, but does there have to be one SO similar?

20150212_143209 by mrbleh, on Flickr
This Barlow I bought from Charlie bears a striking resemblance as well. Brown sawcut bone handles, single threaded rounded bolster, single initial stamp. Slightly predates the TCs though.

For my part, I like both knives. And much like others in this thread, I prefer the size of the 77 but the all steel construction of the TC. I have a 77 in hand and should have my TC when I get home.

 

[Peregrin]

This needs to get back on topic, guys. This is not the place to discuss dealer marketing, availability, pricing and all the commercial stuff. Discuss the knives. If you want to discuss all this off topic stuff, take it to Feedback http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/699-FEEDBACK-The-Good-The-Bad-The-Ugly!.

I'd rather not have to close this thread, but I will if necessary.

 

[EyeDog]

Comparisons are always tricky. And somewhat subjective. When I got my Wharncliffe 77 last month it was one of those "Where have you been all my life?" moments.

I've got a TC coming in a few days and I'll let you know if I have the same feeling.

There you go...back on topic.