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how do I dull my knife sufficiently to make a trainer?

shootist16

shootist16

knife law moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 25, 1998
Messages
7,394
I recently bought a Columbia River KFF. I intend to make it a trainer. Any suggestions on how to dull it sufficiently to make it safe to use as a trainer?

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Dennis Bible
 
Send it to Cliff....
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Sorry, couldn't resist, but a file would work as well or taping the blade might be a better method so you could have it back with out much effort or loss of edge width.
G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...

G2 LeatherWorks
 
It's actually difficult to dull a real knife enough to make it a safe trainer. A purpose-built trainer blade stays thick from the spine right up to the "edge" which is then gently rounded over. A live blade starts to thin out, to taper, shortly after the spine. In order to really blunt it, you've got to grind off quite a bit of the blade.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
I agree with Chuck. Trying to turn a knife into a trainer is not a good idea. You want an edge that is well enough rounded to not cut under any circumstances, and the point must be blunt enough that you can fall on it without gutting yourself. I'd suggest making one of wood. If you insist on converting the knife, break off the point, dull the edge, and wrap it in a dozen layers of duct tape. My thoughts anyway.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
You might be better off taking your good knife and using it to carve a wooden Trainer knife to simulate the knife in question.

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...

G2 LeatherWorks
 
I'd think that if a person was to take training seriously they'd like to train with the same knife as they intend to carry. Wouldn't the exact weight, grip, feel and balance be important? How about making something like the metal edge cover that was used on the case Survival Machete?
 
Hi,

I have a couple of solutions for you:

1. Send the knife to my wife and I garantuee you within a week it's the dullest knife you've ever owned.

2. Send it to me and I'll send you back a wooden replacement FOC in exchange, I only accept decent quality knives
wink.gif
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3. Seriously, sometimes they sell these mock training knives that are used by the military or police, get one of those.

On the other hand 1 and 2 might be interesting (for me
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)

Cheers,

Bagheera

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Dennis - I would agree with Chuck. I would also suggest you forget the tape! Knives are designed to cut and will eventually cut through the tape.

Grinding is possible, but difficult and time consuming and as mentioned, much of the blade must be ground off before it is even marginally safe.

We made trainers for some teachers (Erik Remmin, etc). but you are far better off to use a trainer designed to be a trainer. Equal size/ weight/ depoloyment is ideal with edges at full width and the "meat" removed from the middle would be first choice. Aluminum or wood models work well. A different color is a plus (we use red).

The absolute most important thing to avoid is to accidentally hurt someone or yourself with a trainer.

MBC (Martial Blade Craft) is an art form demanding serious attention to both the art and the responsibilities attached to it.

sal

 
I agree completely with Bagheera's #1 statement.

My wife can dull a knife, no matter how sharp, no matter who made it..........

in 3 seconds or less.



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"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"
Thomas Jefferson

www.lameyknives.com
 
Making hard and realistic cuts and thrusts is more important to me than matching the dimensions and handling of the knife. I want to safely make face slashes with full contact. I use neoprene foam pipe insulation tubing (Armaflex) with a couple strips of duct tape running lengthwise to give it a touch more stiffness. For some sparring we wear dark clothing and put white chalk on the 'edge' and 'tip'. A nice white donut mark on the solar plexus is a nice indication of a good thrust. A chalky forehead is a nice sign of a good blinding cut.
 
Hi!

Just wanted to share my ideas here
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How about getting someone that's good in welding build up the blade on your KFF and then ground it smooth? then you will have an edge thick and smooth not to cut/stab.

Bad about not having the actual knife to train with is that i like to train with my knife clipped to my waistband/pocket and suddenly draw and cut, impossible to do with a wooden/plastic/other knife, and i want the feel of the real knife.

Having a trainer in another color is in some way a good idea, heaven (or other location) forbid that you grabbed the wrong knife.
The drawbacks to having a red (just an example) knife is that it's easier to see and might fool you if you practise disarms, you will look for the knife as it's easy to see since it's red, when it's a real blade it will not be as visible as the trainer, maybe you have then learned a not-so-good technique.
Just my rambling, love to hear critique/opinons on'em
smile.gif



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Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp

"May all your detonations be expected"

The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
 
I once had the edge and tip of an AFCK ground down to make a trainer. The clerk at a local knife store used his grinding wheel to do it.

He charged me around $5 to do it. The problem is that the tip is still thin. It works well as a trainer for practicing openings and for techniques in the air where you don't want to risk cutting yourself.

I was able to practice openings followed by a thrust by strapping a piece of thick leather to my punching bag and thrusting into it. Earlier I had tried to cover the bag with a blanket, but the tip went right through the blanket and cut a hole into my bag.

I definitely would not use it to practice with another person although Kelly Worden uses a blunted knife for this in one of his videos.

I have two EDGES2 Kasper aluminum trainers which I use on my heavy bag. I also have Silhouette foam trainers for person to person training. My nicest trainer is a Crawford KFF trainer which has a custom made folding trainer blade.

Kevin Gentile will also grind down the edge and tip of a CRKT KFF. I'm not sure how much he charges. You can email him at KevinRGentile@worldnet.att.net.

Axel
 
There probably isnt enough demand, but it would be nice if Columbia River would make a few KFF trainers. They could use their existing version and put in a trainer blade.

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Dennis Bible
 
If you know you like the CRKT KFF, and are committed to it, how much did it cost? Buy another, find a grinding wheel but go slow.

Dirt dulls knives faster than anything else I've "cut", well, short of sandpaper perpendicular to the edge. Knocked the back edge off a double edged fighter blade in 60 seconds "cutting" the dirt, got things down somewhere a bit sharper than a butter knife.

Dirt knocks the edge down without distorting any of the grind should you want to resharpen later. Scotchbrite pads are pretty good dulling agents too.

My wife knocked the shaving edge off my cheapo Spyderco Jess Horn traveling folder in Italy by sawing through pizza onto a ceramic plate...she had it dull before I noticed and could yell "DOAP!" in pseudo Italiano.
 
A STRONG CAUTION!!!
I am a member of a paid professional Dueling group.
We duel with Rapier and Main Gauche and our edges are dulled to 1/16th of an inch smooth and rounded. Tips must be rounded to a 1/4 inch radius.
The warning comes in here.
ANY burr on your blade that you may incur while dueling can slice like a razor.
The blunted tip will penetrate with as much ease as a sharpened one. (This I know from brutal personal experiance.)
Any metal trainer can kill just as quickly as the sharpend "live" blade can.
I strongly suggest looking into a rubber trainer and forget about turning a real weapon into a trainer. (I know, they're "tools" but you're not training to cut tape and string.)
The biggest problem with fighting a dulled blade is this.
For the sake of safety and assuming an unwillingness to kill your training partner, technique MUST BE MODIFIED!
For example, you must do ALL thrusts "broken wrist." This means you hold the "tool" limp wristed so that no thrust is directly pointed into your target. Great for dueling, lousy for combat training.
Consider a rubber knife, and if you want more info, feel free to email me!


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I cut it, and I cut it, and it's STILL too short!


 
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