How do you carry/draw your bali?

M

McMahan

Joined
Aug 7, 2001
Messages
127
What method have you guys found to be the quickest way to get your knife into action? I know some people have voiced their opinions on the quickest opening technique, but what do you find to be the best carry/draw combination?

I like to use a horizontal carry with the sheath located on the right side of my body (right-handed) near the small of my back. The tail end of my knife is usually even with or just slightly sticks out past the top of my hip. So, if you were looking at me straight on and my shirt was tucked in you might see about an inch of bali above my right hip. The knife is settled in the sheath so the safe handle is on top (latch nub points toward the sky).
When I draw the knife, I reach behind me and disengage the latch with my thumb as I am pulling the knife from the sheath. To open the knife I then use what I guess is a variation of the latch drop where I grab the top of the safe handle and swing the knife to the open position. The advantage I can see of using this method over the latch drop is that with a batangas style knife, the latch drop causes the knife edge to be pointed towards you when the knife is opened. Using my method the blade is facing outward and ready to use.

With this method I can go from having my hand resting at my side to having the knife in a full open position in under 1 second (I’ll make a video and put it up pretty soon showing my method and the time it takes). So my question is, how do you guys carry your knives and how long does it take to get a live blade in your hand?
 
BTW, I do not consider any variant of the latch drop to be a combative opening. It's not secure enough when you're holding your knife by the little latch between the tips of two fingers and then deliberatly thrusting it down.
 
Horizontal Cocoon just to the right of my belt buckle; I use the Imada 'finishing nail-in-the-flap' trick to help expedite opening and go with a back-drop into a reverse icepick. Very fast and VERY effective, if need be.........
 
Windmills all the way. Forward, backhand, horizontal... It's wonderful in close quarters, as you don't even need to move your wrist but a tiny bit. It keeps the handle secure in your hand the whole time, unlike the latch drop. Plus you can go into a stabbing thrust directly from a forward windmill in one motion. It's also how I prefer to draw my bali when there are people around who might get "frightened" by a flashy manipulation. It's quiet, quick and I imagine very reliable when the pressure is on.
 
I carry in the coin pocket of my jeans (just around the house, though). I use a simple windmill.
 
Here is the video I promised:

http://MCMBR143@doc.bus.orst.edu/students/m/mcmbr143/bali/BaliDraw.avi

Gollnick,
I probably didn’t describe my opening technique very well when I called it a variation of a latch drop, since the latch is in no way used to open the knife once it is out of the sheath. The point I was trying to make was that the knife swings open in one fluid motion. The video does a lot better job of describing the technique than I do. After seeing my opening technique, do you think it is a viable combat opening? Also, in your opening technique, does the sheath open up the latch for you as you draw the knife or do you have to do it yourself? I like your style except I prefer a reverse grip once my knife is opened.
 
Nice video McMahan. Nice opening to. It definately would not be clasified as a latch drop, but I understand why you would call it a variant. Keep them coming.
 
When I draw my bali I don't open it right away, I try to strike with it closed (tabak maliit) usually a head shot, under the nose or chin.:eek: . If that does'nt make your aggresser take a step back, then a drop twist and catch opening to expose the blade. I carry my bali horizontally above my right hip pocket. But just between us, I hope I never have to try it.
 
Looks good to me McMahan..., and thanks for the nice video! Obviously we all have our favorite methods, but I have always thought of it from a confidence/economy of movement standpoint. Looks to me like you have both incorporated :)...and I do like the "Reverse Ice-Pick" finish.

As an aside, I have a good friend that is very proficient, and a former trainer in combative knife styles. He doesn't like carry positions that are so far to the rear, given the heightened chance of someone (other than you) grabbing the knife from behind, which he feels is much less likely to occur with a more frontal carry modality.

I only got to view your video a couple of times, but it looks like you could accomplish the same opening from a more forward carry position if you desired, so the point may be moot. I carry a couple in one of Clay's Double-V's from time to time, and position it right in the small of my back, so obviously I just mentioned it for the sake of discussion. I practice "running" as much as "flipping" :).., so I just keep the faith that a sub-11 second 100 Meter guy won't take mine ;)

Really nice .AVI....nice of you to share it!
"Hunters seek what they [WANT]..., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
Click to expand...
 
i've tried the horizontal hip-carry, and i'm not as comfortable with a latch-drop for an opening that requires the knife to be used under pressure.
i also like to carry in the coin posket of my jeans. i disengage the latch on the edge of the pocket, so it's like the emerson wave on a bali. then i use a windmill, or a very very fast vertical basic (clay's site).
peace.
aleX.
 
Bladeswinger,
Are you using Windows Media player to view the avi’s? If not, it is probably one of the better players out there and worth the download. If so, the videos should come up as soon as you click the link, or you can right click and use the Save Target As… command to save it on your computer. You might want to make sure that in the options menu, under formats, you have Video File selected. I don’t think you can view an .avi until it is fully downloaded, so that might be the problem as well.

7Cain and ExamonLyf,
Glad you guys liked the vid. I didn’t think I would be such a big camcorder fan until I actually started using one and figuring out what I can do with it. ExamonLyf, you make a good point when talking about the increased odds of someone being able to take your knife when you have it so far back. My draw technique would work if I carried it on my hip, but in terms of keeping it concealed I think it is a lot harder to spot the knife in the small of my back then the side of my hip. If worse comes to worse, I think I still have a pretty good sprinting speed myself!
 
I use a vertical carry on my right hip.Usually,when I draw the knife,I use one of several manipulations to get it open.

The latch drop can be done so that when it comes open,your hand can easily wrap around the handles..and if you're quick,you can also spin the handles so that the edge is facing outward.

Normally,I keep the latch open while carrying,and when I grab for the knife,I only grab the bite handle (which is in the forward position) with my paw being in a straight down position.As I pull the handle upwards,the safe handle is allowed to fall,and I'm able to quickly roll my paw around the bite handle so that I'm immediately doing a forward windmill.This is a very quick method for me.

I will also grab the safe handle,allowing the bite handle to fall..which gives me the underhand (reverse) windmill.

If my sheath doesn't get flattened out before I'm done using the knife,then I use one of several moves that are a bit flashy and allow me to take the old "gunslinger" approach to sliding the knife back into the sheath without looking.This can be done in either a forward or underhand grip very easily and extremely smooth.It just takes a bit of practice to get it down.

Of course,I'm using an old style of sheath that doesn't have a cover flap..and they're made of a decently thick material that web belts are made of.
 
By the way,nice vid,McMahan.That's a nice reverse windmill opening.
I think you should try to keep the wrist from flexing so far over though,or get your wrist to roll back a bit as soon as you've got the knife open,and have the arm come back a bit too.That way,you'll be in a more defensive position.
If you already do this,then that's ok.But in the vid,it looks like your arm is going out too wide.Try to get the move to be more forward and keep the arm closer...and you'll be doing great. :)
 
Yeeeeeeeeouch.............

Nice video dude, but I have one word for ya'........... Kotagaeshi.

Finishing a Balisong opening in that position will have you stabbed with your own blade for sure........... not to mention that your wrist is COMPLETELY exposed to a lock (Kotagaeshi).

Of course both of these scenarios require your opponet to be a competent fighter. But there are plenty out there to make it worth keeping in check.

.......... also, doing a latch drop side ways (instead of front/back)is much faster and leaves you in a blade forward position. I made a video for Don Rearic showing my method, and he agreed about the difference in speed.

Yo Don, ya' still have that video??
 
MacCanine and Clay,
Thanks for your comments, from what I’ve read in your posts you both know what you’re talking about when it comes to knives. I agree with you guys 100% on the wrist issue. For the video I wanted people to be able to see the exact opening method I used and the speed at which the knife could be opened. I figured if I included a 180-degree wrist turn in there it would be difficult to see my opening technique, so I made it as simple as possible and left it turned inward.
Clay, you will get no argument at all from me that the latch drop is the fastest opening technique. You definitely seem to be the man when it comes to the bali, so your latch drop is probably about as reliable as anyone else’s horizontal basic opening. For me though, I don’t practice the latch drop enough to depend on it in a stressful or potentially dangerous situation. If my hands were even the slightest bit sweaty the latch would probably come flying out from between my fingers and the knife would go through my foot.
Also, let me just say that my interest in balisongs is purely academic and I would not pull a knife in a fight. If it came down to it I would either use my hands or, if the situation warranted it, my pistol. After all, I’m still a relatively young man and need to have some of my looks for the ladies. But, one of my hobbies has been trying to learn how to efficiently use different kinds of weaponry, the balisong in particular. I’ve always thought there was something elite about knowing how to use just about any weapon you could possibly come across, even if the odds were very much against needing to use your knowledge in a real life situation. I hope that none of the younger Bladeforums readers see these videos and assume that this is how you pull/manipulate a knife if a combat situation. Every video I post up here is for entertainment only and untested in a combat situation. In other words, don’t try this in a fight, kids!
 
I've got one of Clay's belt-clip sheaths, and I'm still trying to find the right position. I usually go right-side kidney carry (front) with my shirt untucked, or sometimes crossdraw, left kidney carry. I've tried behind the point of my right hip, but it doesn't feel quite right yet.
I open with either a windmill or the variation on a horizontal where you flip the safe handle out over your index finger, catch it with your middle, ring and pinky fingers, and flip the bite handle around. Not sure what type of motion it is, I forgot all the moves. :D
 
Thanks for the explanation,McMahan.
I wasn't really sure if you were flexing the wrist that far just to show the technique or not.After teaching others how to manipulate balisongs for years,and teaching them why they don't want to do certain things,it's become a natural habit to let people know about something when I see it.

As another point,for those who can easily get confused...that opening is not a latch drop.It's a windmill.The latch drop relies on grabbing the latch itself and using it to open the knife.McMahan is clearly not using the latch itself for the opening.
There are at least 4 versions of the windmill that come to mind at the moment (each also has it's modification,based upon whether you switch handles to close or continue using the same handle and rolling it in hand to perform the manipulation).
There's the forward grip,starting in the palm down position.
The forward grip starting with a palm up position (which isn't very good,although I have seen some people develop this to a point where it can be done very smoothly).This one has the handle being sent out and down,as opposed to out and up.
The underhand (ice pick) grip,which starts with sending the safe handle forward,to end up in the back.
The underhand grip which starts with sending the bite handle backwards,to end up in front.

All of these can be done with either handle starting,but with some of them you can easily twist the handle in hand to spin the edge of the blade around so that it's facing your opponent when the swinging handle reaches the end of the move.

There is another modification to the underhand windmill.Start with the knife in a normal underhand position,as if you're going to do a normal windmill,with the safe handle to remain in hand.As you start though,you want to turn your palm upward,so that your thumb is facing out to your side.Keeping a tight grip on the safe handle,swing the latch handle out (towards the inside of the body).As the handle begins to go underneath your arm/wrist area,start rolling your wrist over towards the inside of the body to put the palm in a downward position.Your fingers should roll the handle in hand as you do this,allowing them to be clear of the swinging handle as it comes in to end the move.The fingers and thumb should always keep a tight grip on the handle,even when rolling the handle.
Basically,all it is is a windmill flopped over onto one side,then rolling to the other side.

I hope these descriptions help end some of the confusion on some of the manipulations some of you have been doing :)
 
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