How do you fix a sticky lock on a titanium framelock?

I trust RJ Martins advice, and even though this is a $600 knife, I plan on using it as if it were a Spyderco Delica on steroids.

So far the sharpie trick is working wonders. I really appreciate all of your input.
I HATE a sticky lock. I simply despise it. I've sold every other knife I've owned that had a sticky lock (w/ warning to the buyer) (that's how bad I hate a sticky lock) but this one I wanted to keep. Thanks to my metallic colored sharpie I think that is going to happen.

Thanks again for all the good input, keep it coming.
 
This is a $600.00 knife right? Pencil (which is graphite, a lubricant) will wear off and certainly impede the "breaking in" not facilitate it. We are talking Titanium, a material chosen for strength. Sharpie painting and now "whacking".
Has an inquiry to the knife maker for a minor adjustment by an Expert with the proper equipment been considered?
I believe Forums were one of the best things that the internet brought to the table, Especially when GOOD ADVICE is offered.


:rolleyes: Have you ever owned a titanium framelock?
 
I trust RJ Martins advice, and even though this is a $600 knife, I plan on using it as if it were a Spyderco Delica on steroids.

So far the sharpie trick is working wonders. I really appreciate all of your input.
I HATE a sticky lock. I simply despise it. I've sold every other knife I've owned that had a sticky lock (w/ warning to the buyer) (that's how bad I hate a sticky lock) but this one I wanted to keep. Thanks to my metallic colored sharpie I think that is going to happen.

Thanks again for all the good input, keep it coming.

Glad this is working for you Brad. I'd really like to the know which knife it is that you're liking so much. I don't think you'll be doing the maker wrong in any way. Sticky locks just happen sometimes. I've had plenty of customs that came to me with a sticky lock. Just one of those things you have to work out.
 
This is a $600.00 knife right? Pencil (which is graphite, a lubricant) will wear off and certainly impede the "breaking in" not facilitate it. We are talking Titanium, a material chosen for strength. Sharpie painting and now "whacking".
Has an inquiry to the knife maker for a minor adjustment by an Expert with the proper equipment been considered?
I believe Forums were one of the best things that the internet brought to the table, Especially when GOOD ADVICE is offered.

Clearly you're not speaking from experience as the pencil trick has worked for many on these forums, myself included. I'm not one to argue from authority, but if you're looking for an "expert with the proper equipment" or a great knifemaker, RJ Martin is very easily one of those guys.
 
Agghhh. Not my point at all and what is it about this particular forum that just because you don't bow down to the perceived intelligencia that you are immediately deemed inexperienced or labeled a newb. I am simply contending that an item whether it a knife or whatever especially priced in the upper realm should arrive not needing owner finishing or tweaking. It should arrive in perfect working order. For the sake of argument let's say a $600 knife is to knives what a Mercedes is to cars. If you got your new car home would you seek forum advice on how to rub out the scratch on your door or ask how to tune it up the very day you drove it home? Why then are knives any different? I submit they are not but hey what does someone with insufficient post count know?
 
to me if it is not perfect from the maker, send it back and HAVE it fixed
won't tolerate a back liner/frame lock problem even on a chinese knife, on a custom there are no defect to be tolerated

the pencil trick is fine but to me it's a "going around" of the problem, there shouldn't be any problems, even less on such an expensive knife
it may become worse or give you problems, have it fixed and working right

sent a Fantoni Harsey (300usd/200€) back for the same problem, got a new one (to my likings & specs) that works great even if opened very hard
the linerlock works well and doesn't wear or travel, as it should if done properly, there are well made one if you cjeck kershaw you see some good ones and I mean ones to understand how it should be done

a framelock does work on geometry not on contact
my 2 cents
Maxx
 
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Agghhh. Not my point at all and what is it about this particular forum that just because you don't bow down to the perceived intelligencia that you are immediately deemed inexperienced or labeled a newb. I am simply contending that an item whether it a knife or whatever especially priced in the upper realm should arrive not needing owner finishing or tweaking. It should arrive in perfect working order. For the sake of argument let's say a $600 knife is to knives what a Mercedes is to cars. If you got your new car home would you seek forum advice on how to rub out the scratch on your door or ask how to tune it up the very day you drove it home? Why then are knives any different? I submit they are not but hey what does someone with insufficient post count know?

Now you're just lying. Here's what you posted earlier:

Pencil (which is graphite, a lubricant) will wear off and certainly impede the "breaking in" not facilitate it.

Further, you responded to RJ Martin's post and later stated that the OP might consider speaking to an "Expert with the proper tools" or the knifemaker. RJ Martin is both and expert with the proper tools and one of the most sought after custom makers in the industry. This isn't to say that talking to the original maker is bad advice, it certainly is a good idea, but you were also arguing that the advice given was wrong in some way.

You were called on a claims that you made, not because you're a newb to this forum. Don't blame the forum because you can't back up your posts.
 
Lying!? That got me off the couch. Lets slow the roll. My reference to Graphite (pencil) as a lubricant which is a bandaid for poor fit/finish and a deterrent to "break-in" not a facilitator is fairly obvious. When you are breaking in your New race motor you DO NOT do so with synthetic lubricants OR your piston rings won't seat correctly YOUR MOTOR WON'T "BREAK IN".
You wait until the metals meld and the rings seat before you go to synthetics.
As for some cars that come with synthetics, the motors were broken in at the factory.
Back to the root argument of my point. I simply offered as my "solution" which would be long term and ultimately correct - if the knife isn't right, send it back and let the maker fix it. I doubt that the makers solution would be to paint it with a sharpie and mail it back. IF that is the accepted industry solution than I stand corrected and the issue is then moot.
AS for accusing me of lying - I'll ask that you refrain.

Now you're just lying. Here's what you posted earlier:



Further, you responded to RJ Martin's post and later stated that the OP might consider speaking to an "Expert with the proper tools" or the knifemaker. RJ Martin is both and expert with the proper tools and one of the most sought after custom makers in the industry. This isn't to say that talking to the original maker is bad advice, it certainly is a good idea, but you were also arguing that the advice given was wrong in some way.

You were called on a claims that you made, not because you're a newb to this forum. Don't blame the forum because you can't back up your posts.
 
With all due respect,

No arguing on my thread, PLEASE.
Please take it somewhere else if need be.

Thank You all for the Great Ideas and Input.
 
With all due respect,

No arguing on my thread, PLEASE.
Please take it somewhere else if need be.

Thank You all for the Great Ideas and Input.

My pleasure sir, I am not accustomed to being called a liar. As for your obviously very fine knife - Good luck with it and I hope it gives you many many years of trouble free enjoyment.
Enjoy!
 
For a lock (any lock really) to be sticky for a while is normal. if not preferred. Sticky means secure IMO.

Just keep using sharpie and it will stop sticking eventually.
 
I absolutey completely 100% despise a sticky lock. Just the noise/feeling it makes simply makes me cringe. Uhgg. It's that bad. It rattles my bones...
 
Can someone explain why would a Sharpie work to fix a sticky lock? I am just curious to know the reason behind this. Thanks.
 
As did my 0551 in about two weeks. I also have a slightly sticky Burke Pro Rockstar that is getting better with each use. I'd venture to say 25% or more of my Ti frame locks had some degree of a sticking lockbar but it always breaks in.

Sometimes just loosening all the screws and massaging the knife then retightening can resolve a mildly sticking lockbar on a Ti frame lock too ;)

For a lock (any lock really) to be sticky for a while is normal. if not preferred. Sticky means secure IMO.

Just keep using sharpie and it will stop sticking eventually.
 
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Just another form of lubrication apart from graphite. What I do is examine the tang and locate the point of contact by a shiny section or even just a shiny dot. Then I just mark the shiny part with the tip of a Sharpie. It's quite profound how well it works, Let it dry a minute or two then voila! Also, once you cycle the action several times the sharpie mark takes on a semi opaque, pencil graphite sort of look to it. It isn't a black dot in your face. It gets more subtle with use. Then about every few days I would wipe it off with a Q-Tip ( maybe a little solvent if needed, it comes right off) and I test the lock for stickiness. It doesn't take a long time. A week to a month at most in my experience, depending on the severity of the stickiness.

I also might add, that it is my opinion that the Sharpie technique actually works better than nothing at all combined with perseverance. It's my belief that rather than galling the Ti more and more, until it's broken in, the Sharpie method allows the contact point on the Ti lockbar to polish a tiny bit thus resolving the stickiness while preserving more of the Ti on the lockbar.

This is just my hunch along with examining the tang and lockbar contact points.

Can someone explain why would a Sharpie work to fix a sticky lock? I am just curious to know the reason behind this. Thanks.
 
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Wow, there's a lot of attitute in this thread. The very nature of the locking mechanism on liner-locks or framelocks dictates that a perfect lock-up is on the verge of being sticky, and also on the verge of being sloppy. Titanium itself is a softer metal than the tang of any knife, and is prone to galling. Which means that it does some interesting things when it is jammed up against a harder material.

The entire construction of the lock bar, lock bend and tang interface is critical to how the knife works, breaks-in, and holds up over time. Having built 1000+ knives of this style, I believe I am fairly competent to speak on this topic. Assuming the geometry selected by the knifemaker is correct (and this is not always the case), removing as little as 0.0002" from the tang can change the lock-up of a given knife. I know this because I grind my tangs on a fixture that uses a micrometer to control the amount of metal removed and I am able to make adjustments as small a 0.0001" during this operation.

If you have any idea of how small 0.0001" is, you should be able to comprehend that even a minor high spot (virtually unnoticeable to the eye, even with magnification) on the end of the lock-bar can cause a sticky lock. This is where the Sharpie comes in. The Sharpie provides enough lubrication to let the high spots on the lock-bar conform to the surface of the tang (which also is not perfect). It prevents galling, where the condition of the face of the locking bar would become rougher and more uneven, making the sticky lock even worse.

As to the gentle spine whack, it is actually a two step process and is fundamentally sound in its Engineering. The knife (before sharpening) is first opened and the edge of the blade is first tapped firmly on the workbench several times. This seats the stop pin and internal components at their "Maximum Material Condition" (MMC) If you don't know what MMC is, either do some research or trust me. <G>. It's the condition where all the parts of the knife cannot shift in a direction that would change the lock-up. (stop pin seated rearward, pivot pin seated fully forward).

Once the parts are seated, and the preliminary lock-up is eatablished, a GENTLE spine whack (knife tapped on the bench upside down) will mate the tang surface to the end of the lock-bar perfectly. If the lock is still sticky, the knife is disassembled and more material is removed from the tang. The process is repeated until the lock-up is correct.

This procedure is performed on EVERY knife made at KERSHAW, BTW, and their locks are the best in the business, IMO. Their locking bars are generally Stainless steel, and they really whack them hard. With Titanium and the Sharpie marker, I have found that a gentle tap or two is sufficient.

Of course, the spine tap will also point out bad geometry, as the lock will be defeated (slip) if the geometry is not good. With correct geometry, the lock will actually seat itself more fuly or remain un-changed.

Hope this helps. Of course, on a custom, there is nothing wrong with contacting the maker and asking him to address the problem. It's just that often, the "Sharpie Trick" will correct it.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Can someone explain why would a Sharpie work to fix a sticky lock? I am just curious to know the reason behind this. Thanks.

The Sharpie contains a tiny amount of carbon black which is evenly and thinly deposited when painted on by the felt tip. This carbon lubricates the metal surface so that higher local pressure can be applied without the metal sticking to the other metal.

The liner lock is a sliding contact, and if the metal sticks it galls, which means that the softer/weaker metal rolls up into a ball and tears out of the surface. By lubing the interface with a Sharpie, the two metals can slide past one another and the harder blade tang can smoosh down the high spots on the softer lockbar without galling taking place.

This is akin to the difference between smoothing down a bead of latex caulk with a dry finger and doing the same with a wetted finger. The water on the finger lubricates the process just like the carbon in the Sharpie does.
 
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