How do you guys grind Kiridashi bevels?

[Feisty]

Good morning everyone!

After spending another late evening in the shop, I still feel like I'm missing something about this whole bevel grinding business. To date, I've ground 5 Kiridashis, 1 smaller fixed blade, and my thumb twice.:thumbup:

In an effort to keep my bevels looking as clean and straight as possible, I've essentially just been holding the Kiridashi stationary against the platten at the desired angle. I hold them edge up, with the actual cutting edge parallel to my tool rest. I hold them pretty firmly for several seconds, and dunk them when they get warm to avoid ruining my heat treat.

Does that sound right, or do you guys do something differently? I'm using a Grizzly 2x72 and the cutting edge of the Kiridashis are short enough to fit entirely on the belt at once.

 

[zhyla]

What all is going wrong? Since the whole bevel fits on the platen, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a nice flat bevel right? Does the bevel on the other side not match (if it's double-beveled)?

You mention a tool rest. The table on the Grizzly looks pretty tiny. Have you tried just free handing it? I've been working on a similarly sized kamisori and had no trouble just sticking it against the belt and getting a nice even bevel. One difference is I grind bevels before heat treat.

 

[Feisty]

My apologies, I tend to ramble without explaining the important stuff! The actual edge of the first few Kiridashis I did have a slight curve to them, a tiny bit of belly. They are right-hand chisel grinds with no secondary bevel. I had ground the edge flat against the platten when profiling the blade prior to beveling, so I had assumed my edge would be straight and was surprised when it wasn't.

My bevels are starting to look more and more even with each blade that I do, I was mostly just curious as to whether or not my technique needed any tweaking. I know on longer blades starting at the plunge and drawing toward the tip is how bevels are formed, but I couldn't really find much information for beveling Kiridashis.

You are exactly right though, the tool rest that comes with the Grizzly is laughable. After fighting with it for a couple weeks I purchased one from Don D. on eBay which has worked excellent.

I have been using the improved tool rest to brace my hands while I hold the Kiridashi, but I will try doing it totally free hand. Hopefully that, along with starting with flatter steel, will lead to some prettier knives!

 

[Lu1967]

Steel might be warped or not flat. I have the same problem sometimes.

 

[zhyla]

Hmm, I still don't see how you can grind a piece of steel smaller than your platen and not get a flat bevel? What grit are you using? Is your platen flat? Are your bevels actually flat and there's other geometry at play here?

How thin is your stock? Really thin stock can flex as you're grinding.

 

[viral]

I only freehand with my grizz. Everything I get my work rest set where I want it on the platen I have to use the contact wheel and move the rest out of the way. I've since taken it off and just live without it, best part is, I don't miss it at all. I forgot I even had one until you brought it up. Haha

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Kiridashis sounds easy to grind but are actually pretty tough. Keep practicing!

Use sharp belts...

When grinding move the knife back and forth over the platen or wheel as opposed to keeping it stationary. (cover the whole belt instead of staying in the middle)

 

[AVigil]

You are rocking the blade up and down that is what is giving you a convex grind.

If you can not free hand it,cut a piece of wood at the angle you want and clamp it to your grinder and use it as a work rest to get the angle.

You could also buy a bubble jig and use it. It will give you automatic feedback if you are not on the correct angle.

 

[Feisty]

Steel might be warped or not flat. I have the same problem sometimes.

Hmm, I still don't see how you can grind a piece of steel smaller than your platen and not get a flat bevel? What grit are you using? Is your platen flat? Are your bevels actually flat and there's other geometry at play here?

I believe you are both right. I'm generally using a slightly used 60 grit norton ceramic belt to cut my bevels, and I have checked my platten for flatness as well, so it really had me stumped until I got to looking at the piece of 1095 I had cut the first few knives from...

It's a lot more obvious in person, and I have no idea why I didn't check this from the get go. Live and learn! Thanks for the suggestions guys! On a related note, I won't be buying hot rolled 1095 for the foreseeable future, as I've learned it is less than optimal for the setup I've got currently.

I only freehand with my grizz. Everything I get my work rest set where I want it on the platen I have to use the contact wheel and move the rest out of the way. I've since taken it off and just live without it, best part is, I don't miss it at all. I forgot I even had one until you brought it up. Haha

Another excellent pointer, I initially tried to rough profile my knives on the rest, against the platten. I've since moved to freehanding them on the contact wheel and then cleaning them up on the platten and rest. For the most part though, freehand grinding is way more comfortable than I thought it would be, once I got over the initial fear of it.

Kiridashis sounds easy to grind but are actually pretty tough. Keep practicing!

Use sharp belts...

When grinding move the knife back and forth over the platen or wheel as opposed to keeping it stationary. (cover the whole belt instead of staying in the middle)

Hey Daniel, I appreciate the pointers! I really dig your work. You are one of the (many) makers that has inspired me to spend way too much on tools so I can make knives for myself! I had originally thought that Kiridashis would be easier to grind but I'm learning that's not really the case!

I've still got a bit of grinding to do on this one (edge is 0.023, needs to be a touch thinner before sharpening) but I think the double bevel turned out nice!

You are rocking the blade up and down that is what is giving you a convex grind.

If you can not free hand it,cut a piece of wood at the angle you want and clamp it to your grinder and use it as a work rest to get the angle.

You could also buy a bubble jig and use it. It will give you automatic feedback if you are not on the correct angle.

I've made that mistake recently as well, the first Kiridashi I did out of 1/8" stock ended up as a convex bevel and I ordered a bubble jig from Fred the same night. Since I've received it and started working with straighter stock, my grinds have been improving.

I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I meant, though. The problem I was having before (due in part to bent steel) was that the edge itself wasn't flat, like it should have been. If you look at the tip, you can see it.

But after working with actual straight stock, I was able to get an edge that is totally straight!

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and support, guys! This forum has been an amazing resource so far, and if it weren't for the wealth of knowledge and experience found here I would be totally lost!