How do you guys grind tips? Now With MSPaint!!!

[okzj]

Is it like the left or right illustration?

Can't you tell I'm a great artist?

 

[gixxer]

I use neither. I keep the same bevel angle and pull the handle towards myself progressively working towards the tip. that way the grind lines stay paralle the whole way. if you twist the knife as in the first example the grind scratches curve with the edge-- unless you want the grind scratches to do that--- then my bad...

Edited to comment on the second example. If you twist the blank towards yourself as illustrated you change the actual bevel angle and lose a bit of the spine taper to the tip.

 

[okzj]

Do you twist along the spine any or just pull it toward you?

 

[gixxer]

zero twist. I keep the same bevel angle all the way to the tip.

 

[kungfumo]

zero twist. I keep the same bevel angle all the way to the tip.

Same for me, but I grind edge down on all my knives. Just a personal choice though, it doesnt seem to make much difference either way for me, just more comfortable down.

 

[TekSec]

Yup, same as above except edge up. If you do a Scandi grind you would use the 1st method rolling the handle downwards as you approach the belly of the blade until you get to the tip.

 

[Mace]

I do mine more like the one on the right...same angle as the bevel and straight across.
What kind of problem are you having?
If your tip comes out looking like a sharp screwdriver you are pulling your hand (handle side) back to you and are not comming off the belt straight.
Hope that helps.
Mace

 

[AcridSaint]

Depends on the profile of the blade, honestly, I will use any of the three techniques described. I always grind edge up.

 

[okzj]

Here's what I do and the problem I'm having. I grind like the left image, except I do all three motions. I rotate the edge into the belt, rotate the tang toward floor, and pull the tang out toward me. It works fine grinding the personal side, but it's hell trying to grind the other. I always end up getting the tip taper too far back on that side and (of course) get uneven grind lines. What I'm trying to do is keep the same angle, just turn a curve with it. It's a pretty obvious that I'm just not pulling the tang out toward me enough, but every time I try to pull more the blade ends up rotating and eating into the edge.

I'll give the other method a try... just left to right and pull the tang out toward me. myabe it is simpler. Not just like I want it, but if it saves me some aggravation it's more than worth it.

More MS Paint:

 

[Bruce Bump]

More like the left picture. I pull the handle away just a little while rotating it down. Make sense?

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I do it like our esteemed Mr. Bump. That way, on a hollow grind, the hollow wraps around the belly rather that go straight off the end. So it is a combination of turning the blade and lifting the handle end. This is less important with blades without much belly, but blades with a lot of belly will not maintain the same grind geometry if all you do is lift.

Have a look at this pict. Notice how the reflection near the tip curves around with the belly, thats because the hollow curves around with the belly.

I don't get that like that without rotating the blade to keep the edge somewhat perpendicular to the belt. I lift some too, but that is more to ensure I'm keeping areas I'm not grinding clear of the belt.

Something else I do to help with the tip is I grind it before finishing the profile behind it. That gives it a little more support on the belt. Then I finish the profile, like this:

I'm not saying this is the best way to grind. But it did help me with my grinding before I had accumulate much experience. I also do a lot it of it on a mill, but that is a different subject.

 

[P.Brewster]

Very good question; very good illustrations. Everything I say here is based on speculation and very light experience, so take it with a grain of salt. I use a robo-jig that mimics the action of method 1 (L).

For those who say "... changes the bevel angel" - I'm curious to know how the "bevel angle" is defined. To me, the bevel angle should always be measured with the protractor on a chord-line to the edge (that is, perpendicular to a tangent line). So if you were measuring the bevel angle of a pizza cutter wheel, you would always measure on a radius line. Think about grinding that wheel by hand - it would be very difficult to use method 2 (R) and achieve a consistent grind.

For method 2 (on the R), you could also pull the handle toward (instead of rotating the handle) you as you approach the tip.

Using method 2 (on the right), a failure to rotate would result in a changing bevel angle (as measured my way). Nothing wrong with that; it looks kind of cool and makes a strong tip.

 

[Troop]

I do what AcridSaint does; a combination of all three techniques...You need to develop a "feel" for what needs to be done. I also grind edge up, so I can see what I'm doing.
Tips are tricky, so I do what Mr. Nathan does for his tips.:thumbup:

 

[AcridSaint]

Here's what I do and the problem I'm having. I grind like the left image, except I do all three motions. I rotate the edge into the belt, rotate the tang toward floor, and pull the tang out toward me. It works fine grinding the personal side, but it's hell trying to grind the other. I always end up getting the tip taper too far back on that side and (of course) get uneven grind lines. What I'm trying to do is keep the same angle, just turn a curve with it. It's a pretty obvious that I'm just not pulling the tang out toward me enough, but every time I try to pull more the blade ends up rotating and eating into the edge.

I'll give the other method a try... just left to right and pull the tang out toward me. myabe it is simpler. Not just like I want it, but if it saves me some aggravation it's more than worth it.

More MS Paint:

Hi - I suggest starting with the side that gives you trouble and matching it to the other side. You'll be starting out with full concentration on the grind and it will probably come out better, also you'll have more room for error because you're not chasing "perfection" from the weak side.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Hi - I suggest starting with the side that gives you trouble and matching it to the other side. You'll be starting out with full concentration on the grind and it will probably come out better, also you'll have more room for error because you're not chasing "perfection" from the weak side.

This is how I have to do it also . I do my weak side first and then match it with my strong side .

 

[James_Terrio]

Great posts above by Bruce on down. With a distal taper and curved belly, there's no way I can keep the edge sharp all the way to the tip without moving the handle end out and down a little. Knives with a lovely main edge and an obtuse tip really p!$$ me off. It's one of my biggest beefs with factory knives. If it's not going to be razor sharp, just make it a chisel tip if you want extra strength.

GREAT pics to illustrate this Nathan, thanks! Reflections don't lie.

I , too, leave extra "meat" behind the tip till the bevels are done to avoid rounding it off. I wasted a bunch of steel and Tylenol before this occurred to me.

Grinding off-side first is a great tip, I will try that (yet another "Doh!" moment for me...)

 

[Will Leavitt]

This is how I have to do it also . I do my weak side first and then match it with my strong side .

Me too.

I know this sounds weird to ask, are your elbows tucked in to eliminate "arm flop" and I don't use my hands/arms to guide the blades I grind cept on the long ones, I kind of sway back in forth in the ole "grinder's dance". Wife says I look like I'm slow dancing back in junior high

 

[James_Terrio]

I kind of sway back in forth in the ole "grinder's dance". Wife says I look like I'm slow dancing back in junior high

I've heard folks refer to this as the "biological tool-rest" AKA beer-belly, and yes, I do it too. It offers good control and seems to keep my back and knees from locking up. (I'm not as old as some of you grey-beards, but the hinges don't work like they used to )

Just don't reach around the back of your "dance partner" and try to cop a feel!!

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Me too.

I know this sounds weird to ask, are your elbows tucked in to eliminate "arm flop" and I don't use my hands/arms to guide the blades I grind cept on the long ones, I kind of sway back in forth in the ole "grinder's dance". Wife says I look like I'm slow dancing back in junior high

tucked in snug resting on the hips . Your wife should see the guy who helped me. He would put on the music ,fire up the grinder that ran at the speed of light and then stand there swinging his hips until the music and grinder noise got the rhythm in his head .Then he would go to work . A funny sight to see .

 

[okzj]

You guys have been a hell of a help. I'll post pics later today when I get the handles finished on thge two I was working on. I think I finally learned the "grinder dance", and it had made it so much easier and more enjoyable to grind.