How do you handle it?

[Skiv]

Now I've just received a couple of handles from a well known handle company. Unfortunately they were sent lacquered though I requested that they not be. Also one had clear heartwood and one had a wedge that is too small for the eye

Upfront I'll say you're gonna get MY opinion. I may just do some things differently, that's all. I'm still learning, too.

In the industrial process you may not be able to get unlacquered handles from some companies. It would involve taking a handle out of the flow of work -- which may or may not be real easy for them. Just sayin'. You can take the lacquer off with a spokeshave a lot faster than with sandpaper. It's my favourite tool.

Heartwood and weird grain orientations go with the territory, unfortunately. Which is not to say you have to buy them, if you have the choice and can high-grade a display of axe handles in a brick and mortar store. Buying them online will usually mean you get the first one on the hook in the warehouse. But for $10-$20 bucks a handle you're not going to get too much attention to detail from somebody. If you find a freshly-filled display of handles, just buy all the ones that look good. You'll be surprised at how few handles that really is, however.

If a wedge isn't right I make one. I usually grab a piece of maple out of the firewood pile, split off a piece and work it down with a hatchet and shave.

The first thing that strikes me about these is how thick they are! They are like clubs.

That they are. There are various reasons for that. Generally I tend to look at any handle on the rack as "a good start."

My attempt at a handle was done with white ash, because that was what was available. Since I've gotten the two I ordered (plus the one I picked up from a country store), I've learned that hickory is much more difficult to work with: it does something called "tearout" when you try to whittle it.

Ash is a good handle material. I looked at getting a chunk of quarter-sawn ash with good grain locally, enough for four handles. The cost of the wood was equivalent to about $30 per handle (counting waste and off-cuts). I'll go that way eventually, but for now I can get a $15 hickory handle and do a little work and it's fine.

Depending on the handle shape and any curvature, you will have grain ending at weird places. The original wood grain probably wasn't all that straight to begin with. Yes hickory tears out. You can minimize that by changing direction with your cutting tool. Bad grain one way is good grain 180 degrees different. Kind of like people. The other thing I like to use is a spokeshave instead of a drawknife or plane. It can limit the depth of cut like a plane, but follow the countours like a drawknife.

What tools do you use to prepare the neck (not sure this the right term for the part that fits into the eye)?

Spokeshave and wood rasp.

Should the shoulder gradually taper into the neck or should their be a distinct edge/ledge?

"Fast taper" for me. I'll drive the head right down onto it and I want that sucker to stay there.

how slender is too slender, how chunky is too chunky?

What size are your hands? Do you have any disability like a missing finger, or nerve or muscle damage in one hand? If it feels right, go with it. If it's not right and you can fix it by taking wood off, do that. If it's too thin you'll be getting another handle. A good argument for going slow until you figure out what you like. Handle lots of old and new axes and see what's good for you. Also, you'll change your idea of what's "right" over time as you do more with it. That will affect the handles you're doing five years from now.

how wide should the kerf be?

Wide enough that you can hammer in plenty of the wedge, remembering: You can thin out a thick wedge if the kerf is a little narrow, and you don't want the wedge to bottom out in the kerf. Wedge and kerf are two separate variables, and I usually want 2/3 to 3/4 of the kerf filled with the wedge.

Where do you get your handles?

Local stores. I buy what's available of good quality. In my area that's Link-Seymour imported from the US; everything else is un-named overseas production.

How do you modify them (what do you do to them, and what do you do it with)?

Here's a link to a post on my blog (Old Hippie's Garage) about spokeshaves. In it you'll find a brief discussion about handles, too. I'm a little different in how I treat a DB handle. I hate swells and prefer knobs. I like thin handles with pretty much stock depth. I usually shave down a DB handle to between 3/4" and 7/

How close does the eye size of the handle have to be to the eye?

I prefer it to be larger, so I can work it down to fit.

(above: is this gap too big?)

I'm gonna say "Yes." At the front, anyway. I'd like to see the end of the handle in the same general shape as the eye in the head. As noted earlier, for an eye that shape you may need a maul handle.

Are there ways around tearout with hickory?

Better tools. Thinner cuts. Work the other way on that patch of grain.

Don't be afraid to work slow, and try the fit to your hands a lot. Pay attention to how the handle feels when you move with it. Accuracy is more important than power of stroke, so take it slow and see how it feels. This is your personal custom grip, just like a custom pistol grip. If you see somebody doing something new and different to you, ask why and then try it out for yourself. The way I do SB handles I got from a custom handle on a hand-forged axe a friend of mine owns.

 

[300Six]

I hope your previously posted image comes up to correspond to this query. The old handle on the left is curious for me by the familiar thinness, shape and the paint colour. It wouldn't have stamped 'Ideal' or maybe 'Walters' on the other side now would it?

 

[Square_peg]

Upfront I'll say you're gonna get MY opinion.

Good post and an interesting blog you have.

 

[wdmn]

Thank you all again; this thread has been very helpful and interesting.

Skiv, thank you for taking the time to respond to all of those questions. I've now thinned out one handle and am in the process of working on a second. I'm having some success when I slow down and follow the grain really closely with my knife; I also find that a slicing motion often works especially on the sides. A spokeshave seems like a worth while tool to have, but they are sort of expensive, how large is the one you use (I also ask this generally to anyone who uses spokeshaves).

300Six, you got it, far left is Walters, Hull Quebec; got it at a flea market for 2.50. I was waiting until I got a replacement handle before I posted any pictures of the head.

 

[wdmn]

Tried out the axe that I hanged (pics in this thread) a little today. It worked very well with preparing this kindling as the 2.3 pound head could handle the naughtier pieces, but the short handle allowed for more accuracy.

 

[300Six]

300Six, you got it, far left is Walters, Hull Quebec; got it at a flea market for 2.50. I was waiting until I got a replacement handle before I posted any pictures of the head.

I love it! That unique white-wash colour is not an ordinary stain/paint, nor is the shape of the handle.
Morley Walters was a curmudgeon (so I was told by the son of the general manager, 10 years ago) but he really and truly believed in his product and owned and operated the Walters Axe Company, Hull, Quebec for almost 60 years. I have a whole bunch of his stuff and time has proven to me over and over that they were equal to anybody else's. Some of them have handles so wonderfully fine that you'd figure they must have been made as 'decorators' but when you look at the honest wear and tear, longevity, shaping, grain and orientation you come to realize that he employed very skilled workers. There is/was no commercial hickory to be found in Ontario or Quebec (lots of White Ash, mind you) but he nevertheless shopped only for the best.
Please do not toss that handle! A shaped piece of wood such as that is as much a craftsman's signature as is a pen to a piece of paper.
I keep thinking one day that I will try to reproduce some of his handles but it ain't gonna happen; the 'keep it simple' philosophy (and practicality) of Scandinavian-type handles are much easier to mimic and folks that have never experienced a 'classic tradesman' handle will never know any better (myself included).

 

[300Six]

Far out! $2.50 for a Walters and with an original 'dainty' handle!
This being the digital/computer/electronic age no one gives a hoot about quality/longevity. And those that do buy; anything and everything that currently claims to be 'hand-made' and costs $100+ must be superior to that "old junk".

 

[Skiv]

A spokeshave seems like a worth while tool to have, but they are sort of expensive, how large is the one you use (I also ask this generally to anyone who uses spokeshaves).

At the moment I have two spokeshaves, both flat. One is a Veritas, the other is a brand-new Stanley 151. True, the Veritas will set you back $100 for the shave with an A2 blade, plus another $25 or so for the PM-V11 blade. I love using it. It's one sexy tool and I'm always fiddling with it.

The Stanley was $20. Right out of the bag they're not in the same class as the Veritas, but you can do some stuff:

1. The best hop-up for the Stanley is the Veritas replacement blade for it in A2. Not only is it good steel and well-tempered, but it's been machine-lapped to seat well in the shave.

2. While you have the blade out, check the flatness of the sole and lap that.

3. Then file down the seating area for the blade above the slot, if needed. You may be able to get by with just scraping the thick paint off that spot.

4. Since you have the cap iron off, take the paint off the underside of the edge where it will clamp down on the blade and then lap that area flat.

5. Flip the cap iron over and profile the nose of it. You're basically removing paint and smoothing the casting so the chips will smoothly ride over that spot.

It's about another $20 for the Veritas replacement blade for the Stanley, so for $40 and a little hand work you have a really nice spokeshave. Some of the tool shops up here have been unloading look-alike knockoffs from across the Pacific for $5 to $7. Don't go there. I did it so you don't have to.

The blade on the Veritas is 2 1/8 inches wide, IIRC the Stanley is 1 7/8. You'll get a good at-least-three-fingers hold on the handles of either one. The Veritas is more ergonomic but whichever one is not difficult to use.

The only other thing is bevel angle on the blades. The Veritas is a 30-degree main bevel with a 35-degree microbevel on it for easier honing. Stanley specs a 25-degree bevel (to which I add about a 27-degree microbevel with a Veritas MkII Honing Jig). Just a matter of remembering which takes what.

 

[wdmn]

Thought some of you would be interested:

 

[Skiv]

Thanks, wdmn! Sigh...since Seymour picked up O.P. Link they have cut way back on the handles they make and don't do the special-order stuff anymore. (Or if they do it's not in small lots like Bernie Weisgerber used to get for USFS.) They still answer email, though, so I guess we should give them props for some semblance of customer service even when the news is bad.

 

[Sparrow92]

A few thoughts from Peter Vido, below:

Upfront I'll say you're gonna get MY opinion. I may just do some things differently, that's all. I'm still learning, too.

Hello Professor! How do you generally handle the troublemakers among your students, you know the type that are forever trying to challenge what comes from "above"? Do you take them 'out back' after classes and teach them another sort of a lesson? Is that why you got involved with martial arts?

While still in school I wasn't clever enough to join those smart-asses, but as I grew older I find myself both more flexible (in some ways) and more opinionated (in areas of my "special interest"). Hanging axes is one of those areas, and though I certainly do NOT have it all figured out, I'm prone to argue with authority or established norm until the cows come home, or I run out of time, or drink, or am totally tired and would rather sleep.

(above: is this gap too big?)

I'm gonna say "Yes."

On this I'm going to contradict you and say "NO", although some clarification is in order: Those ax eyes that feature a significant taper --say 1-2mm both length and widthwise -- generally hold their handles better than the average. (I make a point of taking measurements with callipers before starting to fit a handle, just to help with details of my strategy.)
Now, IF the ax in the picture has such an eye (it might not), I'd say that slightly MORE wood ought to be removed from the outer sides of the nearly-fitted handle. (I prefer to do this 'touchy' step with a rasp.) Hopefully (or rather preferably) the bottom half of the eye depth is snug against the handle at this point, that is, it should have required some firm thumping to get it to the point at which the photo was taken.

As was already mentioned here, I too strive (but not always manage) to have the wedge take up nearly 1/3 of the total eye width when viewed from top and completely touch the front and back of the eye. To allow enough space for that, the two sides of the handle have to be thin enough. Yes, the tendency to succumb to the optical illusion is an issue, and can only be disposed of with practice of hanging many axes. What I mean is that the theoretical 1/3 of the "free space" (to accommodate the wedge) needs NOT be readily seen; the wedge will force its way -- and compression of surfaces is desirable. But I'd bet that most beginners will under-do the gradually-tapered thinning of the top half (not more!) of the handle, and their wedge will get stuck part-way to its intended depth simply for the lack of space sideways.

Anyway, in wdmn's case, I'd say that there doesn't appear to be enough room (sideways) to accommodate a sizeable wooden wedge.

Another hint on this topic: I always custom fit the wedge to the eye BEFORE the handle is in its final position (and ready to have the wedge driven in). If the eye is tapered lengthwise (some are not), so should be the wedge; I want it to fully contact the inside of the eye along its whole depth. So, with the eye empty of the handle I keep gently tapping in the wedge, removing it (by hand or pliers, maybe 3 - 4 times) trimming the long sides on the necessary taper -- with rounded corners -- until it sits close -- but not quite -- to the estimated depth. And yes, I agree with square peg that the wedge should NOT reach the bottom of the kerf. (As a rough guideline, the kerf 2/3 depth of the eye, the wedge 1/2 of it.)

Good night, professor.

P.S. But wait; there is a shortcut to all this fuss! The ax-rehandling method of an old local used-tool peddler was as follows: He'd fit (using a hatchet) the handle into the eye very snugly -- so that it would take some serious pounding to make it the last 1/2 inch of its journey. I watched him once and (having read warnings to that effect) asked: Have you ever had an eye split? Never, he replied and continued the thumps. No kerf in his handles. Instead, he made a sort of 'opening' with a wood chisel in about 2/3 eye length (but not too close to the corners) and drive into it his preferred style of a "wedge". What he used were 6-8 inch used (usually quite rusty) files that he broke into 3-4 pieces in the vise. I had bought several axes from him and must say that they held as though glued for a long while. On top of all this 'rough simplicity', he did it damn fast; $1 is what he'd charge for handling an ax.
What I mean to quickly repeat is the old adage that (sometimes) "rules are made for fools"...

 

[wdmn]

Is this handle salvageable?

This tearout is right where you place your hands.

The handle would become too thin here if it was taken down to the bottom of these holes.

The kerf has also been sloppily cut (not by me):

Though it is not too deep:

Other than using this handle for a smaller head with a smaller eye (it's originally a 36 inch handle), and so sawing off the top (with the bad kerf) and the bottom (with the tearout) is there much I could do with it? Thought of putting wood filler in the holes just so that they don't effect holding the axe, but the strength might still be compromised and not sure if that stuff stands up at cold temperatures/high shock.


THanks

 

[jpeeler]

Personal preference on the tear out problem. Some folks might not mind it, some wouldn't be able to stand looking at it. I would take as a lesson on handle carving and scrap it, but that's me. You don't want to put all that work into something only to be unsatisfied with it. As for the kerf, I've wedged handles with similar problems, but between that and the tear out, I would start over.

Just me though.

 

[Skiv]

Hello Professor! How do you generally handle the troublemakers among your students, you know the type that are forever trying to challenge what comes from "above"? Do you take them 'out back' after classes and teach them another sort of a lesson? Is that why you got involved with martial arts?

When I was a kid I was a trial to my parents. As I got older I had a few of life's lessons reinforced with a fat lip. In the Army it's de rigeur to give somebody a "tuneup" if they get too rambunctious. I've gotten them and given them.

Seriously? I really enjoy the troublemakers and the loose cannons. They make me work harder, which is beneficial to everyone. But the troublemakers are the ones who make the world go round, I think. They don't just eat what's on the table.

 

[Skiv]

Duplicate post, sorry.

 

[wdmn]

Personal preference on the tear out problem. Some folks might not mind it, some wouldn't be able to stand looking at it. I would take as a lesson on handle carving and scrap it, but that's me. You don't want to put all that work into something only to be unsatisfied with it. As for the kerf, I've wedged handles with similar problems, but between that and the tear out, I would start over.

Just me though.

Thanks jpeeler.

What came of the handles you've wedged with similar kerf problems?

 

[CedarEater]

The kerf has also been sloppily cut (not by me):

Oh, oh, that is fantastic and just cave me a splendid idea. Cut another kerf in such a fashion as to make a V shape with the two kerfs. Drive a wedge in each kerf. Call it the "Victory Wedge"! I am going to have to try it out.

 

[jpeeler]

Now that's an idea, Cedar!

To answer your question though, I have a DB 3 lb sager on a 29" handle that's perfect except for the oddly cut kerf. It's had a good deal of use and hasn't budged in any way. The pressure on each side might not be equal, but I don't think it's that big of a problem. Just be sure to leave some extra wedge at the top after you finish it so you can tap it in a little after the handle has 'settled'.

 

[wimpyguy]

One issue that I didn't see addressed here, is the grain orientation in the wedge. Does anyone have any recommendations for it? Almost certainly the grain shouldn't go perpendicular to the wedge, but should it be mostly parallel to the kerf or perpendicular to it? Or slanted 45 degrees?

 

[A17]

My wedge-picking routine is to find any piece of wood nearby that's close to the same size I'm looking for be it branch, board, or anything else. I've never seen a difference except for the hardness of the wood itself.