How do you justify spending hundreds of $ on a traditional?

M

mantzao

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I know this might be a bit controversial one but follow me on this one.

When you buy a "tactical" modern knife you have a bunch of different steels to choose from as well as a big variety of blade shapes, opening mechanisms, handle materials, locks...
When it comes to traditionals the options are far more limited from what i can gather.
It seems to me that all patterns have been invented.
The knives are either slipjoints, lockbacks or linerlocks.
There isn't a great variety of steel.
All have the same opening mech, two hands :D
So, how do you justfy spending hundreds on a custom traditional?
To me spending a 400-500 on a modern custom or production one is already a bit crazy, even though i have done it in the past, but for a traditional, really?
Don't get me wrong, i've seen a few customs on the exchange that made me drool a bit but i don't know...
I know the premiss "what is worth to me may not be worth it to you" very well but how do you justify spending so much on a custom traditional?
To tell you the truth, a GEC Viper doesn't seem too different than a custom Swayback for instance.
Is it the ATS-34 or the bling inside the liners that make you spend the hundreds?
I'm new at traditionals so please be a bit patient with me and let me know your story.

Thanks :)
 
Quality of fit/finish and materials. Same reason to buy a modern custom over the plethora of production options. If you held a GEC and a nice custom in your hands you'd understand, trust me, I own both and the difference is night and day. I think it's actually more noticeable in a slip joint. Honestly, for me, the Sebenza is the best performing modern style knife and it's not even custom. It's fit and finish is as good as it gets. Slipjoints are more demanding to achieve truly perfect fit and finish. You have a back spring that needs to be flush in three positions, the fit of the spring needs to be perfect, the tension needs to be just right, etc.


I'm not into modern knives anymore really but I was at one time and I've had my share....Mayo, Scott Cook, JW Smith, Lightfoot, Lambert, Carson, JL Williams, Hinderer, Obenauf, Terzoula, Strider, Chris Reeves, Tighe, DDR, etc. I had a lot of great knives but only one that truly matched the Sebenza for quality of fit/finish was the Scott Cook Lochsa. Others came very very close. Now, I'd rather just have a Sebenza and spend money on custom traditnals as I feel there is more craft in their assembly and it's money better spent over production knives compared to modern tacticals.
 
For me, it is the old world craftsmanship. I am, actually, amazed we can get traditionals as inexpensively as we can.

Modern designs are so utilitarian (not bad--I have a ZT in my pocket now), but traditionals have an artistic beauty that is indescribable to me. I like my ZT, I LOVE my Madison Barlow (in my hand right now).

1898506_10152333170849493_1911608035_o.jpg
 
With a custom slipjoint or other traditional, you still get all the juicy choices of steel, handle materials, blade shape, pattern, etc. The production choices are generally more limited, its true. But those tend not to get as expensive as well. (Do factor in multiple blades, in your pricing).
 
The most I've spent on a traditional slip joint was on a Jared Oeser Eureka Jack. It was around $350. I did so for a few reasons:
-I really liked the pattern and his grind lines
-I noticed his potential early on. What I mean by this is that some day I believe his knives might fetch $750-$1000 on the secondary market. I've made this mistake before with newer makers. There are knives I wanted by Bill Rupple, and now they are out of reach for me.

The difference between a nice production traditional and a nice custom traditional is the difference between ground chuck and ribeye. Not to say that production traditional knives can't be nice. They are nice, but they don't compare to customs.
 
slide13 said:
Quality of fit/finish and materials. Same reason to buy a modern custom over the plethora of production options. If you held a GEC and a nice custom in your hands you'd understand, trust me, I own both and the difference is night and day. I think it's actually more noticeable in a slip joint. Honestly, for me, the Sebenza is the best performing modern style knife and it's not even custom. It's fit and finish is as good as it gets. Slipjoints are more demanding to achieve truly perfect fit and finish. You have a back spring that needs to be flush in three positions, the fit of the spring needs to be perfect, the tension needs to be just right, etc.


I'm not into modern knives anymore really but I was at one time and I've had my share....Mayo, Scott Cook, JW Smith, Lightfoot, Lambert, Carson, JL Williams, Hinderer, Obenauf, Terzoula, Strider, Chris Reeves, Tighe, DDR, etc. I had a lot of great knives but only one that truly matched the Sebenza for quality of fit/finish was the Scott Cook Lochsa. Others came very very close. Now, I'd rather just have a Sebenza and spend money on custom traditnals as I feel there is more craft in their assembly and it's money better spent over production knives compared to modern tacticals.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the sebenza when it comes to f&f. I've owned 5.
I'm more into thinner grinds now so, besides many factors, that's a reason why i'm shifting to traditionals.

liamstrain said:
With a custom slipjoint or other traditional, you still get all the juicy choices of steel, handle materials, blade shape, pattern, etc. The production choices are generally more limited, its true. But those tend not to get as expensive as well. (Do factor in multiple blades, in your pricing).
Click to expand...

The steel i've seen the most on customs is ATS-34 but is good to know that makers use other steels.
As i said, i'm new at this and am still waiting for my first traditional, the Viper, but i don't see myself buying one with multiple blades.
My idea is that it might be uncomfortable in hand when using it.
Am i right?
 
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M.FREEZE said:
The most I've spent on a traditional slip joint was on a Jared Oeser Eureka Jack. It was around $350. I did so for a few reasons:
-I really liked the pattern and his grind lines
-I noticed his potential early on. What I mean by this is that some day I believe his knives might fetch $750-$1000 on the secondary market. I've made this mistake before with newer makers. There are knives I wanted by Bill Rupple, and now they are out of reach for me.

The difference between a nice production traditional and a nice custom traditional is the difference between ground chuck and ribeye. Not to say that production traditional knives can't be nice. They are nice, but they don't compare to customs.
Click to expand...

Ok but why is that?
Is it only for the grinds?
Is action very different also?
 
mantzao said:
Ok but why is that?
Is it only for the grinds?
Is action very different also?
Click to expand...


It's fit and finish. Seriously, get one in your hands and you'll see. It's one of those things that needs to be experienced to be understood. Browse the Bose thread for a while, great photos that do as good a job as photos can or portraying the level of fit and finish you can find in custom traditnals. Difference is glaring when compared side by side.
 
mantzao said:
The steel i've seen the most on customs is ATS-34 but is good to know that makers use other steels.
As i said, i'm new at this and am still waiting for my first traditional, the Viper, but i don't see myself buying one with multiple blades.
My idea is that it might be uncomfortable in hand when using it.
Am i right?
Click to expand...

I've seen CPM-154 used as well as others. Many makers have favorites, but will discuss your own choices as part of the decision making process.

Most of my traditional knives have multiple blades. I do not find them at all uncomfortable, and the utility is tremendous.
 
Fit and finish is no comparison. My wife cannot tell the difference between a production/mid-tech/custom when it comes to modern folders but she can see the difference instantly between my GECs and my two custom slippies. While there isn't the same level of "bling" associated with most custom traditionals, the customs are head and sholders above the productions.

There is also just the difference between a factory edge and a custom ground edge;again, there is no comparison between productions and customs. I feel like with the exception of a few modern style makers this difference isn't as pronounced with modern knives as it is fir traditionals. Just my two cents.
 
mantzao said:
Ok but why is that?
Is it only for the grinds?
Is action very different also?
Click to expand...

His fit and finish are impeccable. He is able to take a modern approach on traditional patterns. It is not just because of the grinds. It's the whole package. His knives are smooth yet sturdy. His half-stop is at a perfect 90* yet the backspring stays flush when closed, half open and fully open. The area where the scales meet the bolsters is seamless as is the area where the back of the blade meets the backspring in the open position.

While he is a stand out in my mind, he isn't the exception but the rule.
 
Honestly I would pay a lot more for a custom traditional than a custom modern.

With moderns being made so well with CNC machines you can get really amazing tolerances in production with bombproof materials and legitimate amazing steel.

A custom traditional? Blows the best production out of the water.

On the other hand I find the most joy carrying a GEC, old Schrade or the likes with regular old brass, nickel silver and 1095.

Kevin
 
There will be some great responses to this thread I'm sure, but to put it simply... I prefer traditionals over more modern knives because I appreciate the craftsmanship, history, attention to detail, and use of natural materials put into each knife. That being said, I do still carry a Spyderco P2 alongside my GEC 15 when deep in the woods. ;)
 
The title of this thread with a bold highlight; "How do you justify spending hundreds of $ on a traditional?"

There's really no justification to it. How do you justify getting one of those modern things? There's most likely a hole where a spine is suppose to be, there are most likely holes drilled into the covers and liners, and there's most likely a piece of metal of some kind sticking out of the blade that rubs your thumb raw when you use the knife. Then there's the high falutin steels used in the modern knives - enough to drive even the most experienced sharpeners around the bend. Don't think so? Just look in the "Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment" Forum.

When it gets down to the money, well, most knife guys just let penny-wise common sense fly out of the window with their common sense.

I guess what it really comes down to is - "if ya gotta ask"
 
First of all, a custom is . . . well, custom! You get to order exactly what you what and how you want it. Like a bespoke, taylored suit, it's made for you. The "devil" is in the details. Materials: liners- steel or brass. Covers- wood, stag, bone, horn or synthetic. Blades- carbon or stainless, and what H/T. Patterns: what frame, how many and what type of blades, what length, round or flat, bolsters or shadow, etc. Grinds: flat, convex, saber grind, nail nicks or long pulls, etc. Finish: as ground, 600 grit or mirror polished.

And all this comes with better than production quality fit and finish, and walk & talk. They're a pleasure to hold and behold. But only YOU can determine if they are worth the extra cost, or not.
 
I had an interesting experience at our pharmacy this morning. A customer of ours, who dabbles in knife making, was led in by his wife. He had just had his eyes operated on and literally could not see. His wife brought him up to the counter so he could talk with me. He was talking about building a new knife when his eyes healed. I took out my JH Loyd that I was carrying today and put it in his hands. All I told him was that this was the knife I was carrying today. I made not mention of the details of the knife. He ran his fingers up and down feeling the details of it. He opened to the half stop and he stopped as soon as it hit the half stop. He immediately said "this is a hand made knife". He didn't even have to see the knife, the "feel" of it was a dead give away to even a blind man, I took it as a wonderful compliment to John and his wonderful ability. Justified? I think so :)
 
I have the opposite issue, I can't imagine spending so much for a tactical knife. It seems like you mostly pay for a fancy blade steel. Other than that it's just sandwich construction held together with screws. A traditional requires more hand fitting to be properly finished. The backspring has to be properly shaped and fitted to the blade, the bolsters and scales need to be carefully shaped. In multi blade knives, the blades need to be carefully crimped to prevent rubbing. And when the whole knife is peened together it takes more skill to keep the blades centered. When I compare a GEC to an equivalently priced tactical, I have no doubt it took more skilled labor to produce the GEC
 
I see it reverse. Steel when bought in mass at a commercial level is not driving the price.
Slipjoint knives in particular have a lot more parts and lower tolerances than a liner or framelock.

Fit and finish, walk and talk will need to be perfect. Also these parts are most often shaped/ground by hand.
Then add exotic handle scales and you can see where the dollars are spent.
I don't see that with most modern tactical folders.
 
Lhpanther said:
I had an interesting experience at our pharmacy this morning. A customer of ours, who dabbles in knife making, was led in by his wife. He had just had his eyes operated on and literally could not see. His wife brought him up to the counter so he could talk with me. He was talking about building a new knife when his eyes healed. I took out my JH Loyd that I was carrying today and put it in his hands. All I told him was that this was the knife I was carrying today. I made not mention of the details of the knife. He ran his fingers up and down feeling the details of it. He opened to the half stop and he stopped as soon as it hit the half stop. He immediately said "this is a hand made knife". He didn't even have to see the knife, the "feel" of it was a dead give away to even a blind man, I took it as a wonderful compliment to John and his wonderful ability. Justified? I think so :)
Click to expand...

Really cool story and doesn't surprise me at all, production knives are great values these days, but they don't hold a candle to a hand built slipjoint. The difference is easily descernable, even with just the brush of your fingertips when you know what to "look" for.
 
Also as I think. I have built several of the Rough Rider knife kits. The Stockman was way harder than the Lockback. The lockback was cake compared to getting a slipjoint blades and springs to fit together all at once!
I needed a ton of patience to build the Stockman. That was for a less than $10 kit mass produced in a factory. Try all that by hand one knife at a time.
 
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