How do you like the softer pulls on recent GEC knives?

[Camillus]

Why is it being assumed that a knife’s pull weight is subjective?

It’s just an ordinary measure of force. It’s definitely empirically measurable if you have the inclination and the MANLINESS to devise a measurement system. Perhaps a magnet-based system would work.

I am pretty sure one of the main GEC dealers has developed a method of empirically measuring them. Might have been TSA knives.

The only variable that Will be hard to deal with is that the pull weight can vary between knives of the same design and materials, so there is no guarantee two knives will come in the same.

 

[waynorth]

Camillus, the pull weight is not that simple, and very subjective, IMO.
As the blade opens, it goes through a progressive change, from its initial ride-up and break from the first tang corner, to its drop into half-stop or full open. Simply measuring the amount of force with a scale misses the subtleties that the human hand/fingernail perceives. Those perceptions add up to an overall conclusion. Several 6-rated pulls can feel completely different from each other.
YRMV

 

[Old Engineer]

Stronger pulls, faster horses, younger women and older whiskey.

Tom T. Hall made a song just about like that and I know that you know that Al !!!! I expect that many of the younger folks do not know that though . One of my favorite song writers and vocal artists too . I absolutely agree with you on the Stronger Pulls also .

Harry

 

[waynorth]

[QUOTE="r8shell] "If you think about it, the corner of the tang that makes a knife hard to open is not the same corner that makes it hard to close. Ideally, I like a knife that pulls easily and then snaps to attention into the open position."

You are describing attributes of the perfect knife, r8shell!

 

[Railsplitter]

Tom T. Hall made a song just about like that and I know that you know that Al !!!! I expect that many of the younger folks do not know that though . One of my favorite song writers and vocal artists too . I absolutely agree with you on the Stronger Pulls also .

Harry

I remember the year that Clayton Delaney died. That is, I remember that song anyway. My Dad played it over and over on his record player when I was a kid. Now it's going to be in my head for a week.

 

[Old Engineer]

Why is it being assumed that a knife’s pull weight is subjective?

It’s just an ordinary measure of force. It’s definitely empirically measurable if you have the inclination and the MANLINESS to devise a measurement system. Perhaps a magnet-based system would work.

I am pretty sure one of the main GEC dealers has developed a method of empirically measuring them. Might have been TSA knives.

The only variable that Will be hard to deal with is that the pull weight can vary between knives of the same design and materials, so there is no guarantee two knives will come in the same.

I think that I agree with you . There absolutely is a variation in the pull in the same model knives because of the variation in the parts of each knife during the production process . Each part has an allowable tolerance in dimension and surface finish . All of the movements in opening a blade has some friction involved . The tighter a manufacturer can hold those tolerances , the closer the deviation of the opening forces will be . There will naturally be some knives that open with the same force if the opening force is measured with the same instrument . You and I as measuring instruments do not have an absolute number to read out .

Harry

 

[HFinn]

I have a couple of knives with a soft pull. The other is a german knife with corkscrew, the other is a Laquoile En Aubrac. The german knife has a weak snap and I rarely bother to carry it. The Laquoile has a good snap despite the soft pull because of the construction. It is a joy to use. So to me the snap makes the difference.

 

[SV-97]

With some of their recent stuff it feels like there's no spring at all (e.g. calf roper secondary blades).
I prefer really really strong pulls (F&F Calf Pen or Enigma knives style; 8-9) but the pulls on something like the #48 (about 5-6), or #78 (around 6) are g2g too for most stuff.

 

[Camillus]

I agree that the knife has a different pull weight at different points of the curve Charlie, but the primary force used to free the blade from the handle is what most people refer to as the pull weight.

The talk and snap are definitely not measurable!

I have always assumed that the 66 secondaries are lighter by design. This is because most (but not all) of my older Schrades etc have this distinctly lighter pull, and it can’t be a coincidence that GEC follows the same pattern. Perhaps someone knows the truth?

 

[Campbellclanman]

I simply cannot understand why a pocket knife should have a massively strong pull- For me personally- I have weak nails - and if I have to use a tool to open my tool- that’s ludicrous.
Weak nails or no weak nails - having to really work to open a Knife?
I have a couple of beautiful Stag HJ’s - not GEC made- but using as an example-
I have seen 95 % of people unable to open the knives. If they weren’t part of an important series - I would regrettably turn my back on them.

 

[waynorth]

I have a lot of HJ punches that are a Bear to open, Duncan!! I think it was often considered a safety feature!! I saw a severely cut finger from a punch that inadvertently closed on a user (not me!). I like hard pulls, but knives with NO Springs work fine also!!

 

[Buzzbait]

The pull of a knife is also very dependent upon the position and shape/size of the nail nick. Definitely a variable that is not as easy to measure.

A half stop can also greatly change the perceived pull of a knife.

 

[Buzzbait]

I have a lot of HJ punches that are a Bear to open, Duncan!! I think it was often considered a safety feature!! I saw a severely cut finger from a punch that inadvertently closed on a user (not me!). I like hard pulls, but knives with NO Springs work fine also!!

I definitely don’t agree with the logic behind that. I’ve spent a lot of time in the woods, with an awful lot of people. Pretty much every cut I’ve ever seen outdoors, came from somebody having trouble getting their knife open. Usually cold or wet hands, trying to keep a grip and overcome the strength of the pull.

Sure I’ve seen blades close on fingers, but always from backpressure applied to the blade. It would have happened where the pull was strong or soft, IMO.

I never go into the woods with a knife that has too strong of a pull. I consider snappy half stops to be nearly as problematic under less than ideal circumstances.

 

[r8shell]

The pull of a knife is also very dependent upon the position and shape/size of the nail nick. Definitely a variable that is not as easy to measure.

A half stop can also greatly change the perceived pull of a knife.

Yes! If one wants to test the pull of a knife with some type of knife pull measuring device, the blade would have to be clamped at the same distance from the pivot as the nail nick to get any kind of accurate reading. In addition, I find that the angle I can access the nick with my nail has a great effect on ease of opening.


Here is an example of a poorly placed nail nick. The pen blade on this Utica Barlow was so close to the pivot that I couldn't get enough leverage to open it. I used a Dremel cut-off wheel to extend the pull towards the tip, and now it's easy to open. The strength of the backspring was not changed, so the snap is still there.


My point being: I hate hard to open blades, but with thoughtful design, I shouldn't have to sacrifice spring strength to get an easy pull.

 

[Camillus]

I remember in the army when we all got our issue Camillus electrician knives (the reason I chose this for my avatar), and there was widespread dismay among the recruits as to how hard the secondary screwdriver blade was to open. I bet a lot of those knives got trashed, but I still have mine

 

[AlwaysTomboy]

I don't like feeling like I'm fighting against the knife to open or close it, plus I sometimes have problems with numbness and weakness in my fingers and hands, so I appreciate the softer pulls. It gives me more control, less risk of the blade snapping closed on me before I have it all the way open. I didn't vote in the poll because I don't think GEC should necessarily continue in this direction across the board since enough folks like the stronger pulls. I like that the spring tension varies by model. It means there's bound to be something for everyone eventually.

I also agree that it depends on the model. If there's enough blade to pinch open, or if there's an easy open notch, I can deal with a heavier pull. If it's nail nick for opening only, I'd prefer pull weight of 5-6 (if 5 is an average SAK) or less.

 

[blademan 13]

Stronger pulls, faster horses, younger women and older whiskey.

Al,

That just may be one of my favorite responses I have had the pleasure to read here While I am too young to remember the original release, God Bless Willie's Roadhouse and Sirius radio for informing me

 

[Every Day LAN]

One cover on my favorite 98 Camp knife also cracked at the center pin after use. The funny thing is that the pull on that blade is only around a 6, but it's buttery smooth. I think the blade is so huge and the action is so liquid, that the blade develops a ton of momentum when closing, and shocks the heck out of the spring pivot when it closes. You can feel the whole knife vibrate. Fortunately, I spotted the crack early, and a little bit of Krazy Glue filled the gap nicely. You can't even tell there was ever a crack.

I love this patina!

 

[Jfowler]

I much prefer a stout pull .

 

[black mamba]

I've showed these before, but they fit nicely in this discussion. The first pic is a standard tang, and you can see that both the beginning pull and the snap to open have a corner to overcome, adding to the pull weight. The second pic shows a custom touch of rounding the corner of the beginning pull to ease the weight, without affecting the snap to open or the safety of the spring tension.