How do you protect an idea before you make it?

[Nathan the Machinist]

My previous stolen ideas were methods and processes that streamlined efficiency, they weren't products or mechanical novelties.

Chuck

Methods and processes are patentable...

Working as a design engineer, I've designed a number of patented things and am listed on numerous patents. Of course I don't actually own any of them...

But, having been around the patent process a few times, I've heard it said that it costs about $10,000 to properly patent something. But about $100,000 to defend a patent.

If someone wants to make something you have already patented, all they have to do is contest your patent and have more money to spend than you. So, for most things, you'll make more money just making the thing and forgetting the patent. The exceptions would be instances where a significant amount of time and money are spent developing something that, once it is figured out, is not difficult to reproduce, and thus needs patent protection. And that is the real purpose of the patent system.

To sum up: In order to patent something it must be useful, non obvious, and have no prior art. It is easy to get a patent on something that doesn't qualify for one reason or another, but the clerk didn't find it. So there are mechanisms in place to invalidate bad patents. And clever patent attorneys can invalidate just about anything.

If you're looking for a knifemaker/designer/machinist I know one. But I'll warn you that most inventors get sticker shock when they see the quote...

 

[jonnymac44]

Great response, Nathan:thumbup:, and thanks for the info. Always nice to learn something new.

Methods and processes are patentable...

Working as a design engineer, I've designed a number of patented things and am listed on numerous patents. Of course I don't actually own any of them...

But, having been around the patent process a few times, I've heard it said that it costs about $10,000 to properly patent something. But about $100,000 to defend a patent.

If someone wants to make something you have already patented, all they have to do is contest your patent and have more money to spend than you. So, for most things, you'll make more money just making the thing and forgetting the patent. The exceptions would be instances where a significant amount of time and money are spent developing something that, once it is figured out, is not difficult to reproduce, and thus needs patent protection. And that is the real purpose of the patent system.

To sum up: In order to patent something it must be useful, non obvious, and have no prior art. It is easy to get a patent on something that doesn't qualify for one reason or another, but the clerk didn't find it. So there are mechanisms in place to invalidate bad patents. And clever patent attorneys can invalidate just about anything.

If you're looking for a knifemaker/designer/machinist I know one. But I'll warn you that most inventors get sticker shock when they see the quote...

 

[Frank Barron]

If your expecting to get rich making knives. Save your money and make bathtub gin.
If you feel that your idea is worth it, invest in a patent search and if not covered, patent it. Even if it cost 1000.00 usd, it would be worth the bragging rights. Defending your patent in court costs tons of money, ask Tom Edison.

Still you get your name on it, like The Moran Edge.

Good luck and hope it all works out.

 

[termiteslayer]

If your expecting to get rich making knives. Save your money and make bathtub gin.
If you feel that your idea is worth it, invest in a patent search and if not covered, patent it. Even if it cost 1000.00 usd, it would be worth the bragging rights. Defending your patent in court costs tons of money, ask Tom Edison.

Still you get your name on it, like The Moran Edge.

Good luck and hope it all works out.

I'm not delusional enough to think that I'm the Elvis of the knife world by any stretch.
No lotto type income is expected.
I sure wouldn't turn down a few extra bucks here and there, though.
It'll be a fun project regardless of the outcome.

 

[Tai Goo]

I think Nathan said it right.

"So, for most things, you'll make more money just making the thing and forgetting the patent."

I knew a guy that totally wasted over $50,000 (much of which he had to borrow) trying to get an idea patented and into production. The idea really wasn't that great to start with... a stainless steel dental floss dispenser you could carry on your key ring. He had no previous patents and didn't know the ropes of being an "inventor" when he got into it. There's lots of folks who will try to take advantage of guys like that. It also led to his wife divorcing him as I recall.

 

[tryppyr]

I once fantasized about patenting some great idea I had. The company I worked for even encouraged the same... they requested employees file invention disclosure forms, even if the ideas weren't related to the products the company sells. This, by the way, was completely in line with the employment contract for the company, which stipulated that the company owned all inventions created vy its employees during the time of their employmemt.

If you already work for a company that sells products, you should check to see if you signed such an employment contract.

- Greg

 

[ballknives]

Document every detail in great detail.Get a confidentiality agreement from anyone and everyone that sees or does any work on any part of it.Build a prototype and take your idea to a knife company and do a collaboration build and be sure you can do custom versions of the same knife. You should be able to make money from royalties and your custom versions and the company can fight off the bad guys looking to steal your idea. WOW, you would almost think I'm going through this same process right now myself.

 

[jaymeister99]

I knew an inventor who had a few patents. Getting something patented is fairly easy and "relatively" inexpensive. He said it cost around $5,000 all said and done to get the patent. This includes his attorney. I have heard it done for around $500, but thats just the start.

The best way to do it is:
A. Keep your mouth shut, B. Apply for a patent, C. Get a patent attorney. Then take it to a few places to sell it to, with an attorney involved.

 

[Patrickknives]

There is a great book, Patent It Yourself, tells you everything. You can also file a preliminary patent, this is just a diagram and description that you send to the patent office to establish "prior art". Allows you one year to file the patent.

This has all the pitfalls of the patent process but is legally defencible.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I have left this thread to run on its own, as it has been discussed in depth before (many times).

Forget the mailing to yourself stuff....just take the drawings and descriptions to a notary Public and have each page notarized. Then store them in a safe place.

I will chime in with the voice of one who has dealt with patent and manufacturing a lot. I have done the design work and patent prototype making on several "new" designs for mechanisms.
My Grandfather ( a physicist), who trained me, had many patents...including the one for the dial phone.

Knives are very different from tools, technology, and machines. Everyone in the world carries a ball point pen...and they cost a dollar or less. Not everyone will carry your knife and it may cost several hundred dollars. ball point pens are made in the millions ( billions?) and cost about $0.10 to make, thus yielding a huge profit. An elaborate knife can sell for $300 ,but may cost $100 to make,and you may only sell 100-1000 in your lifetime, thus yielding a very low profit. The reality of the scope and profitability of the product is what you need to determine before putting any effort or money into a patent.

If I had a great idea for a totally unthought of knife mechanism/style tomorrow, I probably wouldn't patent it -
Unless it involved the blade transporting itself from closed to open by quantum physics ( Wait, didn't Obewan already patent that idea....or was it Mattel?) .

What I would do is build the knife and sell it.
I would keep all the provenance that went into the development of the knife ( Drawings, plans, descriptions, all my notebooks, orders for water jet cut components, etc.). If it becomes an overnight success, and is a popular enough product to foresee selling more than a few thousand of them, then I might get it patented and seek a manufacturer to make it for me, or find one to make it as a collaboration ( like Ken Onion).

It costs about $10,000 to fully patent a mechanical product. You will need to make a lot more than just sketches. It requires exact plans and drawings, a working prototype,and an explanation as to why it is unique.

Bottom line, if you don't plan on making from several thousand to millions of these, you will spend far more money than you get from a "new" idea.
Make the knife, have fun, and make a few bucks the way craftsmen have done for centuries......because it is a good product .....and made by you. If you don't make and promote the product as "Your" style and idea, no one is going to care about the patent. The chisel edge is not a new idea, but the Graham Bros. made it their style with the Graham Razel. I am sure many people have done the same style...but they didn't make it popular associated with their name.
Keeping it all hush-hush and quiet will not help you, but hinder you in the knife business.
Make it, market it, promote it, sell it.

Final note,
If you really want to sell this knife in volume, make an initial batch of 20 to 100 and take out a small add in Blade magazine. After the first batch sells, you will have three things - An idea of how popular the idea was..... proof and dating ( the add and sales orders) that it is your idea.....and some money to pursue a patent and getting it manufactured in quantity.