How do you rate the BSA's 10 essentials?

[paperairplane]

Sunscreen is essential to prevent troop leaders from having to deal with little roasted gingers all weekend.

This is a list for a 10 year old, not Les Stroud. Their best bet is to stay put, stay warm, stay hydrated and try to signal those who should be looking for them.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Sunscreen is essential to prevent troop leaders from having to deal with little roasted gingers all weekend.

This is a list for a 10 year old, not Les Stroud. Their best bet is to stay put, stay warm, stay hydrated and try to signal those who should be looking for them.

Maybe. But then again, maybe not.

Where they are located when an emergency arises may emphatically NOT be a good place to wait for help - or even an acceptable place to wait.

And if someone breaks a leg on the first day of a two-week trek, no one may miss you for weeks. You may need to self-rescue. Too bad information on self-rescue has been largely eliminated from current Scout literature.

You just cannot eliminate judgment -- even in a Scouting or youth context.

Which is why a purported invariable order of priority of survival needs (First Aid always first priority, etc.) is more than silly; it's dangerous.

 

[neeman]

I will always go back to prioritization which will depend on your activities, terrain, weather and season. ...

Here's an old post I made...needs to be updated a little, but it's more of my "essentials philosophy" than just a list....

I've made a few upgrades/changes, but my philosophy has stayed the same,

ROCK6

I really like your comment
"I mentioned redundancy, and if you go back to how you carry gear in “lines”, where Line One is your EDC and what you always have with you"

Redundancy is a major concept that must be thought out.
What happens if something fails or is lost.
Will that failure be catastophic?

I learnt about carrying "Emergency Gear", never to be used except in an extra ordinary situation.
It is the next Line that mimics the '10 Essentials', like rations, garbage bivi bag, spare batteries, hex tablets, fire starting and in winter conditions spare mittens and sunglasses.
And Emergency Gear will as you explain depend on where you are.

 

[Shobai]

P's Prior planning prevents poor performance...Training ,training...

 

[jaymeister99]

Maybe. But then again, maybe not.

Where they are located when an emergency arises may emphatically NOT be a good place to wait for help - or even an acceptable place to wait.

And if someone breaks a leg on the first day of a two-week trek, no one may miss you for weeks. You may need to self-rescue. Too bad information on self-rescue has been largely eliminated from current Scout literature.

You just cannot eliminate judgment -- even in a Scouting or youth context.

Which is why a purported invariable order of priority of survival needs (First Aid always first priority, etc.) is more than silly; it's dangerous.

Generally Scouts are tought to stay put. If you are stranded with a boat, stay with the boat. A plane crash, stay with the plane. Same with a car. When a search is issued the car, boat, or plane is much more likely to be spotted than you are. But of course there can be exceptions, like a hike where you aren't expected back for a few days.

Knowing how NOT to get lost is just as important as what to do IF you get lost. But thats another thread!

 

[Thomas Linton]

Generally Scouts are tought to stay put. If you are stranded with a boat, stay with the boat. A plane crash, stay with the plane. Same with a car. When a search is issued the car, boat, or plane is much more likely to be spotted than you are. But of course there can be exceptions, like a hike where you aren't expected back for a few days.

Knowing how NOT to get lost is just as important as what to do IF you get lost. But thats another thread!

The WS MB pamphlet says to stay put, then spends many excellent pages describing the characteristics of a survival campsite. What is the point of selection criteria if one is to "stay put." The reality is that situations alter cases.

A good deal of the "lost-proofing" material has also disappeared from current BSA literature.

 

[CM_Rick]

Knowing how NOT to get lost is just as important as what to do IF you get lost. But that's another thread!

Agreed. The only time I advise scouts to leave their location, when lost, is in the event of severe weather coming down on top of them. The latest program for kids (not scouts) is called "hug a tree and survive." I happened to be at a seminar in Gatlinburg for this. It is basically the same advice of just staying put, don't run, panic, or throw clothing away, and keep a trash bag (for a bivy) in their pocket and a whistle. But, they tell the kids the tree can be their friend and they can talk to it while they sit still. The problem is a thunderstorm, or the tree being dead and a possible widow maker. I teach scouts how to identify possible dead fall trees and to avoid them while hiking or camping. Also, I teach scouts about what to do in case severe weather comes down on them suddenly.

Linton,
As for the items individual importance, I just stick to the rule of them all having equal importance. That way they carry them all at all times. You are correct, first aid is the most important in practicality.

 

[dougo83]

They are:
First Aid Kit
Filled Water Bottle
Flashlight
Trail Food
Sunscreen
Whistle
Map and Compass-
Rain Gear
Pocket Knife
Matches or Fire Starters

I have no complaints about the list, personally. I usually only make suggestions to the boys on what to specifically carry, ie brands or versions. Now what do you guys think?

I would define the list a little better. For example, what is "trail food?" I would also ditch the sunscreen for something more useful. Like, a second water bottle or purification gear. I liked this list when I was in Scouts. Mostly because I could take a very liberal interpretation of what some of the items were. For example, my "First Aid Kit" included things like a Leatherman and a flashlight. This list requires a ton of experience and thought to properly utilize. Like someone mentioned, some of it is conditional. If rain is not forecast, rain gear is a waste of space.

Looks good for someone that has some direction from an experienced outdoorsman.

Not to start a flame war, but these seem to be few and far between in BSA leadership. The exceptions, of course, seem to be senior Scouts.

compact mobile phone

Absolutely no. The last thing these youngins would need to do is learn to rely on spotty cell phone coverage. News stories abound where some dense fool went out in the woods thinking their mobile phone would save them.

 

[CM_Rick]

dougo,

Read the whole thread. There is a lot covered here. I give due credit to any scout volunteer. Why? Because they are stepping up and actually doing it. Most people will not. They are all good, but the great ones are few.

 

[dougo83]

dougo,Read the whole thread.

I did. I also answered this:[

Now what do you guys think?

Pretty cool, huh?

I give due credit to any scout volunteer. Why? Because they are stepping up and actually doing it. Most people will not. They are all good, but the great ones are few.

While I do appreciate what Scout volunteers do, I question whether or not some of them should be in that role. I was a Scout myself and had some pretty poor leadership for a while. After all, knowledge of the outdoors is not something you can just read and then do. However, I have worked, hiked, and "adventured" with others who were pretty dang good at what they did.

 

[Thomas Linton]

First aid may be 1st in importance, or last. It all depends on the situation. Insisting, as the current WS MB pamphlet does, that there is an invariable order of priority to be learned by rote is doing a disservice to anyone relying on the pamphlet. It is better to teach all the survival needs [98.6, water, signaling, etc.], various ways to meet each of them, and how to evaluate the situation in order to set the order of priority.

Numerous Scouts have questioned how they can list the priorities without knowing the situation. Boat sinking? Summer thunderstorm in the mountains with sharply dropping temps and high wind? Approaching forest fire? Out of water? Broken ankle? Charging bear? Car accident on a remote road in a blizzard?

If they "get" the approach I suggest, they are most of the way to being able to identify suitable gear for a backpack or PSK (and skills). They will, for example, know what to do with a rubber chicken.

 

[CM_Rick]

dougo,

You got quite a post count there, so I take it you get into arguments a lot. This will be the extent of my humoring you.

You are a former scout, read the whole thread, and still feel the need to ask what "trail food" is? I will answer your question with a question. Really? Well jeez, guy. I guess you're just too cool for school! :jerkit:

I'm sorry you had a bad scouting experience, it happens. It does show in the way you are carrying yourself on this thread. Scouting, for the most part, is an excellent way for kids to get some guidance, learn, and experience the outdoors. In short it's about experiencing "life" in general. Please don't put down any volunteer leaders. Most of them do all that they can, and that is more than most other people will do for the youth in their community. As I said, they are stepping up when others will not.

So, please, chill out.

The 10 essentials are a basis guide line. Items can be substituted for anything more preferred, or better, that meets the same criteria. The one thing most guys that have posted on this thread seem to say is missing is cordage. The more I think about that, the more I agree. Cordage is just so darned useful.

 

[dougo83]

dougo,

You got quite a post count there, so I take it you get into arguments a lot. This will be the extent of my humoring you.

You are a former scout, read the whole thread, and still feel the need to ask what "trail food" is? I will answer your question with a question. Really? Well jeez, guy. I guess you're just too cool for school! :jerkit:

I'm sorry you had a bad scouting experience, it happens. It does show in the way you are carrying yourself on this thread. Scouting, for the most part, is an excellent way for kids to get some guidance, learn, and experience the outdoors. In short it's about experiencing "life" in general. Please don't put down any volunteer leaders. Most of them do all that they can, and that is more than most other people will do for the youth in their community. As I said, they are stepping up when others will not.

So, please, chill out.

The 10 essentials are a basis guide line. Items can be substituted for anything more preferred, or better, that meets the same criteria. The one thing most guys that have posted on this thread seem to say is missing is cordage. The more I think about that, the more I agree. Cordage is just so darned useful.

I didn't want to clutter your thread with my response, so I sent it via Visitor Message. All I will say here is you clearly mis-read what I typed.

Also, the insults, personal attacks, and jerkit icons make you look really childish and discount any point you attempt to make.

 

[stewey1]

dougo,

You got quite a post count there, so I take it you get into arguments a lot. This will be the extent of my humoring you.

You are a former scout, read the whole thread, and still feel the need to ask what "trail food" is? I will answer your question with a question. Really? Well jeez, guy. I guess you're just too cool for school! :jerkit:

I'm sorry you had a bad scouting experience, it happens. It does show in the way you are carrying yourself on this thread. Scouting, for the most part, is an excellent way for kids to get some guidance, learn, and experience the outdoors. In short it's about experiencing "life" in general. Please don't put down any volunteer leaders. Most of them do all that they can, and that is more than most other people will do for the youth in their community. As I said, they are stepping up when others will not.

So, please, chill out.

The 10 essentials are a basis guide line. Items can be substituted for anything more preferred, or better, that meets the same criteria. The one thing most guys that have posted on this thread seem to say is missing is cordage. The more I think about that, the more I agree. Cordage is just so darned useful.

just remember everyone these items are for kids, not experienced outdoorsmen with years of experience just kids getting out there and learning the basics whilst having a good time,

As I said to CM Rick teaching kids in the outdoors is hard, I had visions of training my guys into elite little survivors but it just didnt work out that way, I learnt quickly its got to be as simple and fun as possible, gear has to be basic and easy to use.

Ive come accross some guys teaching scouts that wouldnt know shit from clay if they licked it when it comes to the out doors however they try and theyre usually keen to learn, and to donate your time to help kids out deserves credit in my book,

back on topic I think your list is pretty good mate, its general enough to be added to depending on the environment, simple enough so the kids get it, I say show them some knots and add some cordage and your away.

 

[ROCK6]

I've done Scouting in several areas...mostly as a volunteer due to my field time and deployment schedules. Some were great and some weren't so great. For those I've encountered that complained about the Scout Troop their kids were in, my first response was for them to get involved...most didn't; those are the ones I discount. Not all the Scout leaders were as "outdoors" oriented as I would have liked, but I did respect the amount of time they volunteered. If you have or find a Scout Troop that does a lot of what we would consider "outdoors", consider yourself lucky and continue the tradition by getting involved.

I still think the BSA list is adequate enough for most to have a decent level of preparation. As mentioned, individual needs will make some items more essential. My daughter had severe vitiligo when we were stationed in central Texas. Backpacking and camping in the summer would seriously burn my daughter's vitiligo areas (around the eyes, mouth, nose and knees); a high SPF sunscreen was quite "essential" for her.

Every "list" is going to be subjective, but I would surmise about 60% of it is universal and you must make the modifications necessary for your own needs, conditions, environment/terrain and season.

ROCK6

 

[CM_Rick]

I've done Scouting in several areas...mostly as a volunteer due to my field time and deployment schedules. Some were great and some weren't so great. For those I've encountered that complained about the Scout Troop their kids were in, my first response was for them to get involved...most didn't; those are the ones I discount. Not all the Scout leaders were as "outdoors" oriented as I would have liked, but I did respect the amount of time they volunteered. If you have or find a Scout Troop that does a lot of what we would consider "outdoors", consider yourself lucky and continue the tradition by getting involved.

I still think the BSA list is adequate enough for most to have a decent level of preparation. As mentioned, individual needs will make some items more essential. My daughter had severe vitiligo when we were stationed in central Texas. Backpacking and camping in the summer would seriously burn my daughter's vitiligo areas (around the eyes, mouth, nose and knees); a high SPF sunscreen was quite "essential" for her.

Every "list" is going to be subjective, but I would surmise about 60% of it is universal and you must make the modifications necessary for your own needs, conditions, environment/terrain and season.

ROCK6

Well said, sir.

 

[jaymeister99]

I'm a former Scout, former Asst. Scoutmaster, and former Scouting Professional.

Its true many adult volunteeers are not too good, unfortunately.

But most are good, and with training most if not all can be great Scout leaders. The BSA has leadership training that can teach any shmo how to be a really good Scout leader. Unfortunately not everyone gets the training or follows it, which is really sad considering its cheap or free in most councils.

This doesn't make everybody an outdoors expert. But gives them all the basics, in a nutshell all the training to get a kid through at least First Class. Which is more than most "outdoorsmen" know.

 

[CM_Rick]

I'm a former Scout, former Asst. Scoutmaster, and former Scouting Professional.

Its true many adult volunteeers are not too good, unfortunately.

But most are good, and with training most if not all can be great Scout leaders. The BSA has leadership training that can teach any shmo how to be a really good Scout leader. Unfortunately not everyone gets the training or follows it, which is really sad considering its cheap or free in most councils.

This doesn't make everybody an outdoors expert. But gives them all the basics, in a nutshell all the training to get a kid through at least First Class. Which is more than most "outdoorsmen" know.

booyaa!

Now back on topic. I am thinking that I will definitely add cordage to the list, but as I have stated before, I am apprehensive to maturity levels. I'm thinking the lowest scout level to suggest this is 4th-5th grade, or WEBELOs for those that know what that means. Do any of you guys think the younger guys can handle it? Cub scouts start at age 5/6 (1rst grade). I am definitely going to suggest it to all the Boy Scout levels (starting in 6th grade).

 

[Thomas Linton]

booyaa!

Now back on topic. I am thinking that I will definitely add cordage to the list, but as I have stated before, I am apprehensive to maturity levels. I'm thinking the lowest scout level to suggest this is 4th-5th grade, or WEBELOs for those that know what that means. Do any of you guys think the younger guys can handle it? Cub scouts start at age 5/6 (1rst grade). I am definitely going to suggest it to all the Boy Scout levels (starting in 6th grade).

Handle what, CM? Lists? Going into wilderness areas with 2-deep adult supervision?

 

[CM_Rick]

Handle using cordage appropriately. Little guys tend to do things like wrapping it around their fingers and/or hands tightly, cutting off circulation. Tying rocks or make-shift grappling hooks to it and swinging them around. Stuff like that is what I want to avoid. So, I'm asking what anyone thinks would be an appropriate age to introduce cordage into their kits. Thinking about it, we do officially introduce the blade at the 3rd grade level. So, 3rd grade might be appropriate. Thoughts?