How does CTS-XHP compare?

M

M390 & INFI

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May 4, 2020
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I have a question about the steel CTS-XHP. How does it compare to other steels like Bohler M390 Or Carpenter CTS-204P steel.? I am a very, very long time knife nut and used to know my steels very well but now there are a lot of them and I have been away a little while.

I am looking at buying the blacked out Microtech Socom Elite auto and I saw it was made in several steels one being CTS-XHP which I never though was really a good steel. (but I never tried it as it was on lower cost knives) I can probably find a Socom elite in another steel, but wanted to know how this steel compares as I prefer high quality "super steels" like M390.
 
My only experience is with Cold Steel’s offerings in this steel.

From what I’ve seen is it pretty resistant to rolling, loves a toothy edge, and holds that edge for a long time. Sorta like D2 on steroids.

It can take a nice polish too if you’re in to that.

I think you would be quite pleased with it.
 
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MolokaiRider said:
My old experience is with Cold Steel’s offerings in this steel.
From what I’ve seen is it pretty resistant to rolling, loves a toothy edge, and holds that edge for a long time. Sorta like D2 on steroids.
It can take a nice polish too if you’re in to that.
I think you would be quite pleased with it.
Click to expand...

Exact same experience. My Ultimate Hunter is in CTS-XHP and has been a fine work knife for about 3 years. In the rotation with the S35, S30, and D2 knives I carry, and it holds it own.

Robert
 
There are steels with better edge retention and others that have better toughness. It depends on what you want. However, This is a very good steel and not difficult to live with.
 
Jim Ankerson's testing of steels...in efficiency of cutting 5/8"manila rope...is sort of the bible around here. Again, it's cutting rope.
Check out his link...the first page gives you various categories...XHP is category 4... WAY DOWN the line from the steels you mentioned which are in Category 1 and are generally assumed to be among the best of the best...unless you wish to consider exotics...
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

However, efficacy in rope-cutting may not be the best indicator if YOUR useage will be cardboard or hardwood. It depends upon what you do with it.

NOTE: I like XHP very much for my casual uses...and two of my favorite Spyderco folders are blessed with it. You find it on lesser-priced knives (Chaparral) as well as on the high-dollar Slysz Bowie...presently out of production, so don't sell it short. It's easy to sharpen, holds a nice edge, and is a reasonably tough steel.
It's the combination of attributes of a knife-steel that's important; certain parameters; hardness, toughness, edge-holding, etc will be personal issues which help a user to pick a particular steel for HIS use.
 
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Sonnydaze said:
Jim Ankerson's testing of steels...in efficiency of cutting 5/8"manila rope...is sort of the bible around here. Again, it's cutting rope.
Check out his link...the first page gives you various categories...XHP is category 4... WAY DOWN the line from the steels you mentioned which are in Category 1 and are generally assumed to be among the best of the best...unless you wish to consider exotics...
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/
Click to expand...
Ankerson's testing is really about cutting performance, not purely edge retention. Looking at cutting comparisons that don't take edge thickness and blade geometry into account (like a cut test by Pete on Cedric & Ada), you generally find that XHP, as heat treated by good OEMs, is quite the performer. Even in Ankerson's own expanded list, a Cold Steel in XHP ends up placing above a number of steels you'd consider better via the tier list. If done well, it's definitely not WAY DOWN the line.

Plus, edge retention is just one part of performance spectrum. XHP behaves like a tougher, more stainless version of D2.
 
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Thanks everyone, I think I will be going for their M390/204P and hope they got the heat treatment right. It looks like they definitely got the blade geometry right on this model. (Plus I owned 2 of them before when they first came out around 1996/1997.) I have had a dislike for them ever since, because even my now brother in law bought one so we had 3 new examples of the knife.

He came over to the house one day and said the locks don't hold up. He actually read about it here on bladeforums in 96/97. I said what do you mean? He said they fail when spine whacking them in the palm of your hand. I tested mine and he was right. All three of ours failed a light spine whack in the palm of our hands.

I was young and ended up getting stitches from it, and Microtech sent someone to my house and asked questions like how many knives I had a few other questions and left. I was too young to realize not to talk to them. Microtech never did pay for the hospital bill. They said the cut was inconsistent with normal use of a knife. I said not if cutting rope or webbing. I have not bought a Microtech since that day even though they are quality knives. I figure the auto lock is safer. I never trusted any Walker/liner/frame lock and still think they are not the best, but I did have a good Hinderer XM-18 that was solid. When I was a Reeve dealer I saw how weak their lockbars are personally. Never had a Reeve close on me, but bent bars so far over they were turned into permanent fixed blades.

Tangent over. LOL, thanks everyone for your input. I think I will be happy with the M390 even if it is on a stonewashed blade.
 
marrenmiller said:
Ankerson's testing is really about cutting performance, not purely edge retention. Looking at cutting comparisons that don't take edge thickness and blade geometry into account (like a cut test by Pete on Cedric & Ada), you generally find that XHP, as heat treated by good OEMs, is quite the performer. Even in Ankerson's own expanded list, a Cold Steel in XHP ends up placing above a number of steels you'd consider better via the tier list. If done well, it's definitely not WAY DOWN the line.

Plus, edge retention is just one part of performance spectrum. XHP behaves like a tougher, more stainless version of D2.
Click to expand...

Marrenmiller...I believe we are in agreement... (from my post)
However, efficacy in rope-cutting may not be the best indicator if YOUR useage will be cardboard or hardwood. It depends upon what you do with it.
Again, it's cutting rope.
It's the combination of attributes of a knife-steel that's important; certain parameters; hardness, toughness, edge-holding, etc
will be personal issues which help a user to pick a particular steel for HIS use.
NOTE: I like XHP very much for my casual uses...and two of my favorite Spyderco folders are blessed with it.
 
XHP is basically a high tech stainless D2. Its good stuff. It holds a great edge, and actually resharpens easily. I like it, I have used it in Cold Steel knives though, not Microtech.
 
Sonnydaze said:
Marrenmiller...I believe we are in agreement... (from my post)
However, efficacy in rope-cutting may not be the best indicator if YOUR useage will be cardboard or hardwood. It depends upon what you do with it.
Again, it's cutting rope.
It's the combination of attributes of a knife-steel that's important; certain parameters; hardness, toughness, edge-holding, etc
will be personal issues which help a user to pick a particular steel for HIS use.
NOTE: I like XHP very much for my casual uses...and two of my favorite Spyderco folders are blessed with it.
Click to expand...
I'm only clarifying that Ankerson's post, while very thorough and helpful in its own way, can be misleading when comparing steels directly against one another in terms of edge retention. XHP, in production knives, seems to perform as well as other "high tier" steels when controlling for geometry.
 
I have a Spyderco Dice in XHP. I have not been impressed with the edge retention. I think S30V and M390 are superior in both edge retention and corrosion resistance.
 
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I like the cold steel code 4 in hxp, they did a nice job on that steel imo. As good as s35vn ime
 
There's no such thing as a bad blade steel at this level of alloy. Just better for some users, and better for some designs. Just like any other hi-tech steel.
 
Another hobby of mine is home audio. Two basic schools of thought. One is all about the music. Gear is necessary, but it's not the reason for the passion. Then, there's gear heads. I'm in this camp. Better than BestBuy sound is the game. There are no rules. Except that the only way to know what you have is to put some music on and listen. You can listen to the gear, or you can listen to the music. Or, in understanding, you can do both. One thing I have learned that translates equally between these two interests is that specs are fine for comparisons, but tell you absolutely nothing about how a particular piece is going to work for you as an individual, based on your own preconceived notions and experiences.

'We make the best product we can, but we can't make you like it. We hope you do, we REALLY like your money, but there's no accounting for taste.'

EDIT: Meaning, the majority of knife users won't use a knife enough to notice small differences in performance. The ones who are interested in that stuff, maybe 1-1.5% of users, have other options, and will seek them out if it's important enough. Everything else is just marketing
 
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M390 & INFI said:
I found a great resource for me, and it seems to be accurate from what I have experienced. I have bookmarked it.

Best Knife Steel Comparison - Steel Charts & Guide | Blade HQ
Click to expand...
That general guide has quite a few issues with the relative rankings that don't seem to be based in reality. It almost seems like it was just made by people going off the hype of each steel.

20CV toughness as being very close to M4? S90V being dramatically less tough than 20CV? S110V having lower corrosion resistance than 20CV? Testing doesn't really support a lot of these rankings. I'd recommend looking elsewhere for better steel comparisons, like cut test data and knifesteelnerds info from Larrin.
 
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