How does GEC respond to quality control issues with their knives?

[sitflyer]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quirky

: having many quirks : unusual in especially an interesting or appealing way

How long would any cutlery company be open if every person that required a knife - just needed one knife?

When I see "quirky" I think of my aunt that buys chocolate covered peanuts and just sucks the chocolate off then leaves the peanuts in a bowl for her guests.

Check out the merriam- webster...

 

[knifeswapper]

Check out the merriam- webster...

Going to the old reference is too difficult https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+quirky

But, by my search webster was way down the list - but the first one that actually defined it as neutral as your interpretation.

 

[JTB_5]

When I see "quirky" I think of my aunt that buys chocolate covered peanuts and just sucks the chocolate off then leaves the peanuts in a bowl for her guests.

Round here we'd just called that "rude."

 

[Ramrodmb]

Well, looks like we might need a pair of kid-gloves for handling them too... And I am aware that Ivory Bone is not just slapped on straight from the Cow or Bull..at least I hope not! But it's an easier match than other bones.

I still think that after 10 years in production they might've built up a small stock of parts by now to cover some repair needs but that seems not to be the case.

Bone is very hard and can crack. period
Is it possible someone else could have dropped it without you knowing?
And what, they should stock one or two or three of everything they have ever made? I'm sure that would be no big deal, right?

 

[Will Power]

I was trying to be slightly ironic with the kid-gloves remark... I'm aware that bone is crackable stuff funnily enough. Even though it's the only reported incident

No, nobody else uses it or touches it, it's cracked on both sides by the centre-pin suggesting the spring tension has done it, or the bone was insufficient in thickness - not dropping or banging.

Well I still don't think it's such an outlandish idea to think that a company MIGHT keep a few spares of popular runs, the 73 and especially the 15 are hardly obscure patterns now are they?

My purpose in bringing this up was simply to find out other users' experiences with getting things fixed. However, it appears that with handles of natural material (no un natural stuff then?) the buyer must accept that nothing will be done if it show defects once out of the GEC factory? I'm very disappointed that the Beer Scout has proved to be anything but a tough & durable product, it looks a wreck actually. I've many GEC knives and like most of them but no liking should be unconditional, I've plenty of other bone knives from Queen, CASE, Böker et al. No cracks yet, touch wood! Some have led hard lives but they've stood up better& much longer than this particular 15. Hence my annoyance, quite simple.

 

[supratentorial]

I haven't read through all of the posts but Buzz and I also had cracks in the beer scouts even though we had not dropped them. Not sure why. I thought it might be because of the proximity of the pin to the chamfer on the saw cut bone.

My micarta version has no cracks.

On all knives from all makers, that is the most likely place to get a crack. Some do seem more prone than others but that is a relatively high stress point in general. And there's often very little material between the pin and the edge.

This is one of the reasons for the captive spring design on some knives from Miller Bros over 100 years ago. It kept stress off the covers. The other reason was that it was cheaper.

I had a GEC beer scout that cracked at the center pin but I have no idea when it happened. It was never dropped and it was carried in a slip case. The pin was right on the edge at the chamfer so it was likely the reason (combined with the stress of the pin under load).

In my experience that hasn't happened often. It's usually from dropping them.

I've had a center pin crack, but that's about it. I was able to superglue the crack when it first appeared. Now I can't even find the crack.

 

[Ramrodmb]

I was trying to be slightly ironic with the kid-gloves remark... I'm aware that bone is crackable stuff funnily enough. Even though it's the only reported incident

No, nobody else uses it or touches it, it's cracked on both sides by the centre-pin suggesting the spring tension has done it, or the bone was insufficient in thickness - not dropping or banging.

Well I still don't think it's such an outlandish idea to think that a company MIGHT keep a few spares of popular runs, the 73 and especially the 15 are hardly obscure patterns now are they?

My purpose in bringing this up was simply to find out other users' experiences with getting things fixed. However, it appears that with handles of natural material (no un natural stuff then?) the buyer must accept that nothing will be done if it show defects once out of the GEC factory? I'm very disappointed that the Beer Scout has proved to be anything but a tough & durable product, it looks a wreck actually. I've many GEC knives and like most of them but no liking should be unconditional, I've plenty of other bone knives from Queen, CASE, Böker et al. No cracks yet, touch wood! Some have led hard lives but they've stood up better& much longer than this particular 15. Hence my annoyance, quite simple.

That makes more sense. I'm with you on all those points. You might just have to wait until that pattern runs again.
Now seems like the time to call and see what they could do with the upcoming run of 15's.
I hope they will fix it for you and you might end up having a 1 of 1!

IMO
The warranty seems to say: if it was never used it should not be cracked. Once someone uses it, no one knows for sure what stresses the knife was subjected to. So it seems logical that they would not warranty every broken/cracked bone handle.
I would still call them with the upcoming run.

 

[brownshoe]

I have old knives and new knives, custom and production. I use them all. I only have three with cracks, one S&M, one Remington (Camillus delrin) and one custom. None of them were dropped. I consider the cracks all defects...two bad the factories are dead and so is the maker. I know for a fact the custom one cracked due to a poor design and build, since I had to send it back to the maker for another problem. None of the knives have ever been dropped. I have dropped bone knives, none have cracked except a bare head one and a big chip came out, however no cracks.

I have one Sunfish forge trapper that is designed for hard use and was built in the early 90's, used hard for most of its life by a truck driver, so hard it was reconditioned, but no cracks.

I have a Schrade stockman from the 40s, blades 25% used up, peachseed bone worn down, dropped many times, no cracks.

They are called stress cracks for a reason. The design or construction of the knife puts stress on the covers and over time it cracks.

Now if you drop pearl, ivory, etc. they will crack, but in my small world, not bone.

 

[sitflyer]

I was trying to be slightly ironic with the kid-gloves remark... I'm aware that bone is crackable stuff funnily enough. Even though it's the only reported incident

No, nobody else uses it or touches it, it's cracked on both sides by the centre-pin suggesting the spring tension has done it, or the bone was insufficient in thickness - not dropping or banging.

Well I still don't think it's such an outlandish idea to think that a company MIGHT keep a few spares of popular runs, the 73 and especially the 15 are hardly obscure patterns now are they?

My purpose in bringing this up was simply to find out other users' experiences with getting things fixed. However, it appears that with handles of natural material (no un natural stuff then?) the buyer must accept that nothing will be done if it show defects once out of the GEC factory? I'm very disappointed that the Beer Scout has proved to be anything but a tough & durable product, it looks a wreck actually. I've many GEC knives and like most of them but no liking should be unconditional, I've plenty of other bone knives from Queen, CASE, Böker et al. No cracks yet, touch wood! Some have led hard lives but they've stood up better& much longer than this particular 15. Hence my annoyance, quite simple.

One should only speak in hushed tones and whispers amongst " the faithful ones" lest ye be cast aside as a heretic. LOL
^^^ a joke, in case anyone is confused by the English language...

 

[B.F.U]

Cracked pins on a bone handled knife are not due to use, but due to poor construction. Since most of the GEC handle material is "natural", does this mean that once you use a GEC knife you are out-of-luck for any problems with the covers? Hope not.

Cracks near a pin can most certainly be from user damage, and they can be from manufacturing defects. After three years, who's to say which it is? I don't think it's unreasonable to say that sitting down on a knife heavily for three years (if it's carried in a back pocket) could cause damage to the covers.

Well a warranty is only worth its application. Lots of warranted are worded very favorably. Some that are worded favorably are applied very poorly, and some that are worded harshly are applied favorably. From the experiences people have posted, I don't think you are definitely "out-of-luck" once you've used a GEC with natural covers. I think the best thing to do if you have an issue is call and describe it to the people at GEC.

OK clarification: The Beer Scout is nearly three years old and has developed stress fractures in the past 6 months on both sides and not due to dropping or banging down at all!

The 73 got damaged by me, I waited a long time - over a year for any development on sending it in (at my cost) but never got anywhere with them because of this 'wait till the next run mantra' I was annoyed by this as it is plain undyed unjigged bone, the simplest of replacements. Got fed up and gave it to someone on the forum who was desperate for the pattern-it had a very nice corset shield.

Seems as if the paragraph stating no warranty for any natural handles after they've been used (what does used mean, it could be just like left the factory) means they don't cover anything at all, so much for premium materials. CASE certainly offers better cover than this. I'll contact GEC and see what it will cost, but what with overseas postage and more customs duty I'm not holding any breath...

It seems that they were going above and beyond their warranty as worded by offering to fix the handle that you broke by dropping the knife when the next run came around.

They definitely cover handles. I have a knife at GEC right now that has covers being repaired as far as I know.

I've dropped GEC knives (including those with natural covers) many times and have never had a crack in a natural cover. I guess I'm lucky. Usually the bolsters get dinged.

That's it right there. They make very limited numbers, a lot of times dealers have waiting lists and pre orders...by the time they hit the streets, most are already sold, or soon will be. I don't fault them for the way they run the production of their knives, by constantly changing and offering different patterns, materials etc. , they keep product going out the door. It's actually a brilliant plan, and what makes them interesting. as long as collectors are snapping them up. So yeah, a boutique manufacturer of collectible knives. That's kind of quirky, no?

I think it depends on the pattern. Lots of dealers have lots of GEC knives on their shelves, maybe just not the pattern you're looking for...

I don't think I'd call it quirky. I think it's an intelligent way of doing business that allows both users and collectors (I am both) to buy superbly made knives while supporting the business owners and employees. GEC is just not set up to make knives the way Case does, if it tried it would fail. I do think it'd be cool if GEC made more Farm & Field knives though. Lots of good options. Since they've used the #35 and #65 frames I think those would be good ones to do more with. Maybe consistent runs of a Farm & Field #35 with a wharncliffe blade (since they've already done it on the Calf Pen), #35 with a clip point (since they've done it on the Fish Knife).

Five patterns in yellow delrin ran 365 days a year - that would fix that. They would be broke, but it be a whole different set of folks calling them much worse names than "quirky". Problem solved.

I have talked to them at length, and it does bother them so that they are selling every knife they are making

I guess there are a few people that collect Franklin Mint knives, but for the most part collectors buy knives because they have intrinsic value as knives - whether a Case, Benchmade, or GEC. Not that I agree whatsoever with the inference that all are being bought by collectors.

I know I don't just buy GEC knives to collect. I do "collect" some, as in don't use them much, and appreciate them as collectible pieces of craftsmanship with intrinsic value, but I also use them a lot and enjoy them for their usefulness and utility aspects.

Some might disagree with that.
Quote taken from GEC website: "We have intentionally manufactured them for those individuals who need a tough and durable pocket knife to carry and use on a day to day basis"

Its 'funny' when people act like they are not running at full capacity, making every single knife they can make. What would you have them do?

And they definitely can be. I've used GEC for hunting, fishing, camping, food prep, breaking down boxes, carving, and most other task you might run into over the last 5 years and they have performed admirably. Only one has failed for use and it was a STORE model, and I fixed it myself and it is back to being fully usable.

Well, I wouldn't say I've been unlucky with GEC as I have several of their patterns. But I've got to question this' tough&durable product to use and carry' in the case of my Beer Scout, or should I say BS?

Maybe I should steer towards wood and mic as their bone is flaky?

I get that it's upsetting that your Beer Scout cracked (and maybe the Beer Scouts in general are more prone to cracking), but have you used other GECs and had problems with them to make you come to the conclusion that GEC knives in bone are not durable enough for use?

I have a couple bone handled GECs that I have really put through the ringer with no issues.

I'd have them just keep doing what has made them a great company and brand, but if you break one...well, then it's kinda like you bought an old timey knife, and getting it fixed might not be all that easy if they don't have that one in the production schedule for some time coming...it is ...what it is.

If you break it, and it's really not the fault of the manufacturer, should it be expected to be fixed both free of charge and in a timely manner? I don't know. Maybe. I wouldn't expect that though.

I haven't read through all of the posts but Buzz and I also had cracks in the beer scouts even though we had not dropped them. Not sure why. I thought it might be because of the proximity of the pin to the chamfer on the saw cut bone.

My micarta version has no cracks.

On all knives from all makers, that is the most likely place to get a crack. Some do seem more prone than others but that is a relatively high stress point in general. And there's often very little material between the pin and the edge.

This is one of the reasons for the captive spring design on some knives from Miller Bros over 100 years ago. It kept stress off the covers. The other reason was that it was cheaper.

HMMM maybe the Beer Scouts were prone to cracking. Wonder why, if so.

That makes more sense. I'm with you on all those points. You might just have to wait until that pattern runs again.
Now seems like the time to call and see what they could do with the upcoming run of 15's.
I hope they will fix it for you and you might end up having a 1 of 1!

IMO
The warranty seems to say: if it was never used it should not be cracked. Once someone uses it, no one knows for sure what stresses the knife was subjected to. So it seems logical that they would not warranty every broken/cracked bone handle.
I would still call them with the upcoming run.

Calling is always the best first step.

 

[ccsavage]

I broke a blade on an older 73 and was completely disgusted with myself over it..I emailed chris and she said they could fix it for 25$ if they have a blade. I figured I was out of luck but the next day she emailed and said they found a blade and to send it in.. that's pretty damn fine in my book.

 

[sitflyer]

I don't think I'd call it quirky. I think it's an intelligent way of doing business that allows both users and collectors (I am both) to buy superbly made knives while supporting the business owners and employees. GEC is just not set up to make knives the way Case does, if it tried it would fail. I do think it'd be cool if GEC made more Farm & Field knives though. Lots of good options. Since they've used the #35 and #65 frames I think those would be good ones to do more with. Maybe consistent runs of a Farm & Field #35 with a wharncliffe blade (since they've already done it on the Calf Pen), #35 with a clip point (since they've done it on the Fish Knife).

If you break it, and it's really not the fault of the manufacturer, should it be expected to be fixed both free of charge and in a timely manner? I don't know. Maybe. I wouldn't expect that though.

Calling is always the best first step.

Again, quirky is a commonly misunderstood adjective, which in itself is actually a compliment. Not my fault that many don't truly understand the word. GEC does a fantastic job at what they do...

If you break it...I never implied or said that they should fix it for free... I merely stated that as things are, if you break it, or if it is defective, your only resolve is to wait until the particular pattern is in production again, because they don't and can't be expected to back stock parts for repairs...I think folks are reading more into what I say than what I write...I don't expect them to back stock parts, replacement knives etc , it's just not feasible, but the fact remains that if you got a busted knife, it may not be able to be fixed until GEC gets around to doing another run of them, like I said, it is what it is...nothing too complicated with that statement, and no implied mal intent there.

 

[supratentorial]

HMMM maybe the Beer Scouts were prone to cracking. Wonder why, if so.

I don't know if the pattern is prone to cracking. I was thinking that it may have more to do with the chamfer. Both Buzz's knife and my knife had chamfers. But Will's knife doesn't have a chamfer. And there's a pretty good amount of distance between the pin and the edge on Will's knife. So maybe my guess about the chamfer was wrong. I don't know.

I never considered sending it to GEC. I just assumed that wasn't really a warranty type of issue. I've had other knives crack but those others were dropped unlike the GEC. I just used them as is.

Again, quirky is a commonly misunderstood adjective...

The word brings to mind Zooey Deschanel so it can't be bad.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bein-quirky-with-zooey-deschanel/n13462?snl=1

 

[B.F.U]

I don't know if the pattern is prone to cracking. I was thinking that it may have more to do with the chamfer. Both Buzz's knife and my knife had chamfers. But Will's knife doesn't have a chamfer. And there's a pretty good amount of distance between the pin and the edge on Will's knife. So maybe my guess about the chamfer was wrong. I don't know.

I never considered sending it to GEC. I just assumed that wasn't really a warranty type of issue. I've had other knives crack but those others were dropped unlike the GEC. I just used them as is.

The word brings to mind Zooey Deschanel so it can't be bad.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bein-quirky-with-zooey-deschanel/n13462?snl=1

The chamfer definitely doesn't leave much material outside that pin. I'd have to look at mine, but aren't the bone handled TCs chamfered also? Maybe less so than your beer scout.

 

[mrknife]

hmmm so far every knife that ive received from dealers/2nd purchases have mostly been fine. other than the issues ive caused to the knife by having them modified, the only time I had an issue was with the charlie special 48, which Charlie himself remedied. I do bring all my modded knives to GEC to correct centering tho, during the rendezvous. Wait time, 5-10 minutes depending on who can step away from the counter. Attendance has its benefits I suppose.

 

[B.F.U]

hmmm so far every knife that ive received from dealers/2nd purchases have mostly been fine. other than the issues ive caused to the knife by having them modified, the only time I had an issue was with the charlie special 48, which Charlie himself remedied. I do bring all my modded knives to GEC to correct centering tho, during the rendezvous. Wait time, 5-10 minutes depending on who can step away from the counter. Attendance has its benefits I suppose.

That is definitely true. I've had Bill himself make quick adjustments on one or two of mine. They're happy to help if you visit the factory outside the Rendezvous it seems also.

I just took out my unused and uncarried Mardi Gras #56 because I was going to get it ready to ship and it has a crack extending from both of the upper arms of the shield. Guess I'm not selling this one, even at my already discounted price

Anyway, this has only been out of the tube for pictures and to look over. Never in a pocket, never carried, never used.

I guess I should call and tell them about it and try to get it fixed but my #38 Special in LVS Abalone has been there for over a month because the acrylic started to bubble and I thought it just need a quick sanding and polishing so idk. Maybe another beater like my store model #25 unicorn acrylic that started to pull apart. I think I might be better off not buying acrylic, idk. I have a #22 Magnum in looking glass acrylic that one of the covers has pulled up and left space between the liner and cover, and my #65 in Black gold acrylic has gaps between the covers and the bolsters. I'll take pictures of all these tonight. I'll probably start a thread.

What do you all think?

 

[HST]

Simple.

Contact them. Send it in. GEC fixes the issue.

Remember, it’s a hand-made item, so there’s gonna be nuisances. It’s not really meant to be perfect. It’s meant to work, because it’s a tool.

 

[B.F.U]

Simple.

Contact them. Send it in. GEC fixes the issue.

Remember, it’s a hand-made item, so there’s gonna be nuisances. It’s not really meant to be perfect. It’s meant to work, because it’s a tool.

Believe me, I'm not attacking GEC's craftsmanship or manufacturing. I've been defending it in this thread.

I do think there are differences here. There's a difference from being slightly less than perfect, which it wasn't perfect before the cracks developed, and having two cracks that span the width of the handle. Unlike the beer scouts, this knife has not been used or carried. Unlike the beer scouts, it is not natural cover materials. Unlike the beer scouts, it is not over two years old (it is what, two months?).

If it's a tool, then the handle shouldn't break while it sits in its package. Considering the other issues with acrylic I've had I'm not sure I trust that the acrylic being used is suitable for knives, apparently even collector knives let alone those being used as tools. Again, mine is still a relatively tiny sample size but within my population the incidence of issues is higher than I like. Of course, I just noticed this issue and am somewhat perturbed so I might have a different perspective later.

 

[HST]

B B.F.U I didn’t read anything that would put anyone singularly in my post. I didn't read the whole thread. I made a comment to the general question.

I have only a couple acrylics and they’re the #18s. I would be upset if they did what you said yours did. GEC would replace or fix your knife that was never used and cracked.

 

[B.F.U]

B B.F.U I didn’t read anything that would put anyone singularly in my post. I didn't read the whole thread. I made a comment to the general question.

I have only a couple acrylics and they’re the #18s. I would be upset if they did what you said yours did. GEC would replace or fix your knife that was never used and cracked.

Oh I misread. Your general advice is the same I would give.